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[Laughter]

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monday 4pm

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dan warren and the ufo garage podcast

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wednesday 4 p.m sean reisch is

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citizen witness and on friday 3 p.m

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kent bai vs mick west

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this week on the singularity lab tuesday

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4

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p.m ufo's in the paranormal with john

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russell thursday

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4 p.m cyber warfare usa

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versus china and on friday 5 p.m pacific

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standard time

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paradigm shifts with christina gomez

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come aboard let's get weird this week on

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the unidentified celebrity review

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hello everyone it's a couple minutes

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before 3 p.m

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pacific standard time and at the top of

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the hour the

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unidentified celebrity review will begin

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i'm rather be squidding i provide some

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pre-show musings while you trickle in

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and das tapes provide some free show

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music

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and have you noticed some of the

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production upgrades in recent weeks

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things like the awesome retro intro and

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calendar videos

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now if you appreciate these things

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consider finding the patreon link for

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the show

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in the description below and divert some

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of your monthly entertainment dollars

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this way

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if you're able you know super chats are

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are off

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also open of course i predict our guests

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are going to have a lot to say to each

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other

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but i'll bring all those super chats on

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screen and do my best to get them all

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addressed

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you know in other news today is world

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ufo day

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be sure to celebrate 74 years

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one week and one day ago kenneth arnold

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sighting at murray island

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started the ufo era one week ago

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the uap task force was launched and

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i believe it marked a inflection point

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in our comprehension of the issue

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it may be argued that the report didn't

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reveal a lot or

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really anything but its impact is

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already massive we've had

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serious hours-long programs on national

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tv

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discussing the issue watching them

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it literally felt like the scene in a

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movie right after first

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contact when the protagonist tunes into

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the tv show and

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sees the nation reacting disgust

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just some likely some backstage right

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now

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may roll their eyes at the reports and

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these shows and

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you know to some degree i do understand

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that sentiment

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but i love it there

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wasn't much news in the shows but i was

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incredibly engaged throughout

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i can only imagine what someone new to

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the topic must be thinking after

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seeing something like that discovery

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three-hour live special

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maybe some of those people have since

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explored the topic and

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found their way here i hope so

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i'd encourage those and anyone else for

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that matter to

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find my channel rather be squidding

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after the show

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there you'll find a multitude of videos

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each

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showing you the opening of a new rabbit

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hole related to these topics

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but now we have something tmz and the

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discovery channel

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won't bring you you know there's time

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for cheerleading

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and there's time for serious productive

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discussion

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you're getting the latter today and on

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that note of serious and productive

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it's time to kick things off your hosts

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have one of those qualities in spades

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the men who need no introduction but

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i'll do it anyway

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luis jimenez and michael madaluni

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oh hello oh my god look at this i forgot

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my time man

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oh no oh what is happening

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[Laughter]

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i should have stalled a couple more

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minutes you know what i didn't even

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notice it's not your fault

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you did perfect rather you did perfect

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this is all about me

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but listen we're gonna bring you in in a

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few minutes

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i think i think should we have rather

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here to help us

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moderate this debate i i don't think

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that's a bad idea i mean i always

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welcome

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here we go

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ty's on now we're official all right

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okay rather we'll bring you back in a

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couple minutes yeah i got my popcorn

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wedding

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looking forward to the first hour this

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is going to be a fun one this is

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definitely gonna be a fun one all right

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hello good morning good evening good day

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good afternoon and aloha

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welcome back to another episode of the

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unidentified celebrity review

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your home for credible news reviews and

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commentary on everything uap and ufo

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my name is luis jimenez that is my

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co-host michael mataloni

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we're so happy you come aboard to get

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weird with us today before we get

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started of course i want to say thank

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you to the sponsor bloomerchronicles.com

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purveyors of the world's finest fishing

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tackle since 1995

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and of course want to say thank you to

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dos tapes they provide all of the sick

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jams that you hear on the show their

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bandcamp link is in the description

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below

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also want to tell you guys please check

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out the patreon

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check out the super chats every dollar

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you spend here goes toward making this

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show better

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so please help us help us make this a

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full-time thing

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uh we provide shows five days a week

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between the singularity lab and the

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unidentified celebrity review

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we've got some big big announcements

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coming

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primarily the big phone home too we're

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doing it

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it's coming within the next 90 days so

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get ready

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details will be coming in the next two

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weeks

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um and along with that we've also got

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merch

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as well you guys and we finally put the

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final stamp

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on all the merch it's ready to go i

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cannot wait for you guys to see it

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it's hilarious it's um i think it's

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awesome stuff so

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um all right michael we've got a big day

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today we've got a lot of stuff going on

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so let's go ahead and uh and bring on

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some friends yeah

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yeah man i'm super stoked today uh for

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those of you just joining us we've got

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an amazing show for you we're gonna have

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a productive

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uh debate today and i think what's the

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most important thing to recognize is

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that we've got

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uh two incredibly passionate and uh

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intelligent folks and we are going to

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do everything in our power to ensure we

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get uh

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everything you want which is more data

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and uh and good extrapolation so

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without further ado we've got uh since

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2014 is

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this gentleman has conducted over 1200

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voice of vr podcast interviews featuring

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the pioneering artist storytellers and

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technologists

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driving the resurgence of virtual and

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augmented reality he's a philosopher an

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oral historian an experiential

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journalist

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ladies and gentlemen without further ado

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kent bye

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hey thanks for inviting me on and and

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thanks to mick for

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yeah i think i think mick was a little

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worried at first but i was like nah dude

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don't worry this is gonna be great and

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he i think he trusts me enough to be

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like all right lou

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i got you you know but i i've never seen

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him not that i've ever seen mick west

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nervous but this is the first time where

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he's like i don't know

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all right so let's let's see let's see

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uh and for those of you just joining

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we've got the british american science

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writer skeptical investigator and

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retired video game programmer he is

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a creator of the website contrail

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science and medibunk and he investigates

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and debunks

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pseudoscientific claims and conspiracy

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theories related to chemtrails and ufos

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his first book is escaping the right

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hole

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welcome ladies and gentlemen mick west

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thank you very much glad to be here

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again yeah man you're starting to become

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a staple in the show

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yes people are going to start getting

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suspicious

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they already are mixed look man here's

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what i want mick

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honestly one day i want this to be the

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show you'd be like

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you know what guys i think you're onto

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something here i think i might have been

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wrong

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we'll see if that ever happens that's

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the goal but but we shall see right

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okay so um so gentlemen both of you i

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respect

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heavily both of you are insanely smart

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uh people um i know that

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kent you have an insane twitter

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history uh timeline uh that you know you

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of course will be sharing with us but i

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guess where should we start i mean can't

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we'll start with you

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so yeah yeah i i have uh some context

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and i have a lot of slides so maybe i'll

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share my screen

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first i want to just thank nick for uh

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accepting this and thanks for being here

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did you bring any slides mick there i

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did not bring anything no

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[Music]

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the is the famous ipod kit oh there it

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is the bokeh man we got them all okay

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great that's excellent

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all right so ken you're pulling up your

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screen now let's go ahead and add it

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uh yep we can see it now uh go ahead and

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find uh

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is this where we want to start here yep

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yep okay yep

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the can't buy versus nick west debate on

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uap evidence and skepticism

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um and so just a little bit of

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background this i'm

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sort of introducing myself to mick as

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well because i don't know if he really

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knows why i'm either

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um so i have an engineering background

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i'm an oral historian

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i do an emerging attack podcast and i'm

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kind of an aspiring philosopher i'm not

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trained as a philosopher

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uh but i have this 42-month uap twitter

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thread that's

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my biggest contribution to the uak field

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and then i have one interview i did

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after the

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uap study the the scientific coalition

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for uab studies uh that's been up for a

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couple weeks

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now and i'm at by and um i do actually

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00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:15,200
uh i think i published yeah my slides

286
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:16,480
are up on slideshare

287
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:17,680
so if anybody wants to go to

288
00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:20,480
slideshare.com or slideshare.net

289
00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:22,640
can't buy you can follow along and get a

290
00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:24,000
little bit of sneak peek of where i'm

291
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:24,800
going to go

292
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:27,839
um and uh yeah feel free also so rather

293
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:29,680
if you can just take if you can

294
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:31,200
repeat that site one more time where the

295
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:32,720
slides are we'll have rather

296
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:34,959
pop in the lower right hand corner yeah

297
00:10:37,509 --> 00:10:36,480
slide share down okay there you go yeah

298
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:37,519
slideshare.net

299
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,880
slash pop that in the chat rather thank

300
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:41,680
you

301
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:43,760
all right uh so why we're both here is

302
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,800
this famous

303
00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:46,959
xkcd comic because somebody is wrong on

304
00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:48,160
the internet um

305
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,800
so i think nick is both motivated by

306
00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:52,079
people being wrong in the internet as

307
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:54,000
well as i've been motivated by

308
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:55,920
uh my perception of nickname wrong i

309
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:57,279
think i think it's actually produced a

310
00:10:59,910 --> 00:10:58,640
lot of knowledge uh so

311
00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:59,920
i think it's kind of a good place to

312
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:02,000
start um but just to uh

313
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,440
you know i've had a lot of different

314
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:06,000
sort of debates uh with mick west on

315
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,320
twitter and i found them all uh somewhat

316
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,760
unsatisfying just because

317
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:11,440
there seems to be a certain point where

318
00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:13,120
either just stops engagement or it's

319
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,079
just low bandwidth or

320
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:16,240
i don't know it just i'm happy to be

321
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:17,360
able to have this like real-time

322
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,959
conversation today and and by the way

323
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:20,399
nick if there's any moment that you want

324
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:21,200
to jump in

325
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:22,640
please do jump in i'm going to be sort

326
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:24,560
of studying a bit

327
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,079
let you lay out your initial thesis

328
00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:28,640
first and uh okay then i shall

329
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:32,320
jump on okay so uh i i do oral history

330
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,600
so i do a lot of podcasts i'm going to

331
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:35,519
try to implement this socratic dialogue

332
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,800
and dialectic

333
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:38,480
and i'm also going to try my best to do

334
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:40,240
a steel man of mixed arguments meaning

335
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:41,519
i'm going to try to

336
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:44,000
show the best representation and my

337
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,440
understanding of mixed arguments and

338
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,720
please at any moment like if i

339
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:48,399
misunderstanding one of your arguments

340
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:51,519
please do jump in uh the only caveat

341
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:52,480
here is i'm going to

342
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:53,680
start with your weakest argument and

343
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:55,440
then we're going to dig in but that's

344
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,920
just to

345
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,600
show at the larger point that i'm making

346
00:12:00,949 --> 00:11:59,279
um but other than that we'll be i'll be

347
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:00,959
you know trying to show your strongest

348
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:02,959
arguments that i've seen so far

349
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,279
okay so here's the bit of an agenda for

350
00:12:09,509 --> 00:12:07,040
today uh we have an hour so hopefully

351
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,519
we'll be able to get to this

352
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:11,440
um starting so is mick is mick going to

353
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:16,790
this is a dialectic i'm going to be

354
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,920
going through here

355
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:20,320
critiquing a number of different mix uh

356
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:21,519
uap hypothesis

357
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,320
limits on uh his right ranking uh

358
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,839
we might have to we might have to set a

359
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,600
part two for this uh

360
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,600
we'll see we'll see we'll see we're

361
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:33,120
eight minutes in i think we're we're on

362
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:34,240
schedule here so

363
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:38,560
okay oh shut up are you happy please

364
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,880
all right um so okay so then purple

365
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:42,720
drops go fast and then we'll do a little

366
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:43,680
bit of the odni

367
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:45,040
and then i have an appendix for people

368
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:46,240
to kind of dig in some other stuff we

369
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,440
won't be able to really get into that

370
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,959
but this is just for reference the the

371
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,120
provocation which is basically a

372
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,279
a shot across the bow saying that like

373
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:55,279
what i think nick is doing is not really

374
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,240
debunking that

375
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,160
my contention is that he's attempting to

376
00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:00,399
debunk the uap videos but he's actually

377
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:01,920
potentially introducing more false

378
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:03,279
sentiment and false claims into the

379
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,160
discourse

380
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:06,320
uh so this it was the dm that i sent

381
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,519
back that lou

382
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:09,279
sent to mick and and two mixed credit

383
00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:11,200
he's like yep sure let's do this

384
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:14,560
so so um so i want to just set a little

385
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,920
bit of context from my understanding of

386
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,040
mick you know his

387
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:19,519
goal here on his website is to remove

388
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,079
nonsense

389
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,399
and false sentiment from and to expose

390
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,399
false claims or pretensions this is on

391
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:25,920
his personal history of debunking on

392
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,800
meta monk

393
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:28,560
so he's wanted trying to remove these

394
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,880
false sentiments from this discourse

395
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,639
and there's a conversation where he says

396
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,639
i'm if i'm removing one thing that's a

397
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,760
false piece of evidence

398
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,440
then we all move closer to the truth no

399
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:39,600
matter what your underlying feeling is

400
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,040
okay uh so far so good nick sure yeah

401
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,600
sounds good okay and then there's a bit

402
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,000
of an evolution in nick's debunking

403
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:50,240
morgellian's watch to metabunk into this

404
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:51,279
book that he wrote

405
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,720
uh so i think on the whole there's

406
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,399
probably a lot of ways in which that

407
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:56,240
mick has been doing a lot of debunking

408
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,440
of a lot of these things that are out

409
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:59,839
there 911 conspiracy theories contrails

410
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,440
you know lots of stuff that probably

411
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,040
deserves debunking um

412
00:14:06,629 --> 00:14:04,959
now the upp issue i think this is where

413
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,639
it starts to get into like okay how much

414
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:08,399
debunking is happening here

415
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:10,320
uh so i wanted to start with this

416
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,600
because i think it's actually an

417
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:13,199
an interesting turning point in the

418
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,279
history as i was kind of looking into

419
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:17,440
this evolution from nick this is going

420
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:19,920
back to the beginning of january 2017

421
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:23,120
uh leslie keane uh publishes this sort

422
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:23,680
of um

423
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:25,519
hyperbolic article saying groundbreaking

424
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,680
ufo video just released by chilean navy

425
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:30,240
well within a day uh on metabunk

426
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,680
basically makes like nope this is

427
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,120
explained and basically kind of

428
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:36,000
figures it out and it turns out that uh

429
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,120
whoever the different

430
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,519
ufo people were doing it they they try

431
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:41,040
to sort of debunk the debunking but then

432
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,880
there wasn't any resources and

433
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,240
as of it stands right now as far as i

434
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,240
can tell mick's sort of debunking

435
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:48,720
kind of stands right so he put out a

436
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,320
video on january 17th

437
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,920
kind of explaining that right so this is

438
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:53,600
the beginning of 2017.

439
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,480
then sleeping real quickly i wouldn't

440
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:58,240
characterize it as saying it just simply

441
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,600
stands because they couldn't find a

442
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:01,120
response to it i'd say it's a hundred

443
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:02,240
percent

444
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:05,440
oh okay i don't think anybody can really

445
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:06,160
seriously

446
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,079
argue that this is not the correct

447
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:10,160
answer to this particular case

448
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,440
well i'm glad you said that because i

449
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:12,639
don't i don't know the details of this

450
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,839
but i think you're you're sort of

451
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,440
elucidating on a deeper point that i'm

452
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,880
gonna be diving into later

453
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:19,279
uh but we'll sort of bookmark that um

454
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,160
but thanks for that

455
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,880
uh that sort of definitive debunking uh

456
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,079
according to meg

457
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:26,399
um okay so then at the end of uh

458
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,399
december 16 2017

459
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:30,079
uh lizzie keem comes back with uh

460
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,759
hillary cooper and ralph blumenthal

461
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:34,240
and there's a yet another video that uh

462
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:35,680
has this sort of rotating glare it's

463
00:15:39,829 --> 00:15:36,800
rotating here

464
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:39,839
um and then nick uh publishes like a few

465
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:40,800
days later

466
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:43,360
uh this first video uh ufo rotating or

467
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:45,759
infrared glare and his thesis is that

468
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:47,839
it might be a fighter jet uh that shifts

469
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:49,279
it or a friendly fighter jet and it

470
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:50,399
doesn't necessarily

471
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,000
mean that it's rotating it's probably

472
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:53,759
the sort of gimbal mechanism and as it's

473
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,399
rotating

474
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:56,399
it's sort of an illusion that this thing

475
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:57,680
is actually rotating it's actually just

476
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,160
sort of

477
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,639
a mundane jet and a flare and there's

478
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:02,000
nothing all that

479
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,199
special about what's happening in the

480
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:05,680
video um so hopefully i was able to kind

481
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:07,199
of uh recap that

482
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:09,040
uh and that sort of brings us up to sort

483
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:10,480
of diving in so nick i don't know if you

484
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,680
have anything you wanted to sort of

485
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,680
repeat i know that's that's my kind of

486
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:15,600
leading hypothesis for what we're seeing

487
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:17,199
i'm pretty sure that we're just seeing a

488
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:18,800
rotating glare i have that

489
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,800
same camera there on my desk and i use

490
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:22,800
it for visual aids all the time

491
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:25,360
uh and you know i wouldn't say i've

492
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,880
solved that problem in the same way that

493
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,079
i've solved the

494
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,399
uh chilean navy thing the chilean navy

495
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,920
thing i i

496
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:34,079
pretty much bet my life on that 100 i

497
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:35,120
mean it's

498
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,560
exactly in the right spot at the right

499
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,480
time the radar matches everything

500
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,240
matches the size of the configuration of

501
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,839
the engine matches the

502
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:44,160
contrails match the glare thing you know

503
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:45,600
i basically i wouldn't say i've

504
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:46,560
explained it

505
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:49,759
i would say i have debunked some claims

506
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,639
that have been made about the video

507
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,800
perfect okay so we're kind of up to

508
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,920
speed with

509
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:58,399
your successes uh within the debunking

510
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:59,040
area

511
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,560
and now we're scr i'm gonna get into

512
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:02,320
where i have some uh contentions with

513
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:02,800
some of

514
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:06,000
your work um okay so uh personal history

515
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,720
of debunking

516
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,400
like i said at the top i was gonna start

517
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:10,079
and do mostly still man i'm gonna make

518
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,839
an exception here and actually start

519
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:14,160
on what i think is mick's worst argument

520
00:17:17,029 --> 00:17:14,880
uh and then

521
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:17,039
kind of go from there um so i think

522
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,079
nick's worst argument

523
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:20,240
is on the nimitz tic tac it's pretty

524
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,679
like just arbitrary

525
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,439
it almost seems like he's kind of making

526
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:25,679
stuff up uh well his basic argument as

527
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,959
best as i can reconstruct i don't know

528
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:28,319
if there's actually a canonical video

529
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,440
but i sort of

530
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,960
pieced together what i got from kind of

531
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:32,320
hearing from here and there but

532
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:33,039
essentially

533
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:34,720
nick is saying well waiver's size

534
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,919
estimation could have been wrong because

535
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:37,520
the tick tock was a novel featureless

536
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:38,080
object

537
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:39,120
it there could have been this big

538
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,799
perceptual illusion of it being big and

539
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:42,799
far away when it was actually small and

540
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:43,360
close

541
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,559
rather than 40 feet long it could have

542
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:46,080
been like 20 feet long and even though

543
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,440
he is great pilot that doesn't mean he

544
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,039
can never ever ever make a mistake

545
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,960
and that nick would bet that it's not a

546
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,640
crap that accelerated into hyper speed

547
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:54,240
and it's probably a fancy drone target

548
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,880
balloon

549
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,960
or a perceptual illusion also he admits

550
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:58,080
that he kind of doesn't know what

551
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,720
happens

552
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,400
um nick i don't know if i missed

553
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:01,679
anything there if there's anything you

554
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:02,160
want to change

555
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:05,120
yeah yeah that essentially is my broad

556
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:06,880
assessment of

557
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,679
fravor and dietrich's encounter with the

558
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:10,640
tic tac object

559
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,880
it doesn't really cover the radar data

560
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,559
and it doesn't cover the video so

561
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,039
that's my uh assessment of that

562
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,960
particular encounter mostly fraver's

563
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:20,799
encounter as well because

564
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:23,840
uh what dietrich saw she only saw a

565
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,559
10-second snippet of what fravor saw in

566
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,880
fragrance saw like a five minute thing

567
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:30,480
so when i'm describing this whole

568
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:32,000
mirroring illusion thing i'm really

569
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:33,440
talking about what fragrance saw and not

570
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,559
what she saw

571
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:36,720
okay perfect okay so i'm going to go on

572
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:38,720
into some of my other complaints i guess

573
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,240
so there's some different discussions

574
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,400
was that was that a complaint no well

575
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:44,320
um what i i don't think this is a good

576
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,760
explanation for the nimitz

577
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:47,039
so i don't think that you know not me

578
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:49,120
neither so

579
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:50,160
i don't think that this is a good

580
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:51,760
debunking and i would argue that what

581
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:52,880
you're doing is actually adding more

582
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,679
noise

583
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:55,679
and he's adding another hypothesis that

584
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,919
i thought was plausible so i think like

585
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:59,919
saying adding more noise is a bit i feel

586
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,600
like if you add noise saying well maybe

587
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,760
it's aliens isn't that adding noise

588
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:05,039
well i'm not saying it's aliens i'm

589
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,799
saying we don't know i'm not saying you

590
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:08,240
are but other people do so are you going

591
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:09,840
to critique them for like bringing

592
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,360
aliens into the picture

593
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:13,440
when we don't know we don't have enough

594
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:15,280
data i mean

595
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,480
you've got a problem with this

596
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:18,799
explanation i'll get into oh let me just

597
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:19,600
sort of uh

598
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:20,799
go forward a little bit i'll get to the

599
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,679
alien stuff later um some pledges

600
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:26,080
just to clear though like you're just

601
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,919
saying you think this isn't a very good

602
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:28,720
explanation

603
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:31,120
correct i think that's introducing those

604
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,720
i trust

605
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:34,320
and dietrich more than you on this one

606
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:36,160
okay well i agree it's not a very good

607
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,360
explanation

608
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:39,200
uh but i don't think i wouldn't consider

609
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:40,799
it to be introducing noise i consider it

610
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,559
to be introducing a hypothesis that

611
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:43,919
should be considered

612
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:46,640
okay fair enough um all right so that's

613
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,440
pretty fair and

614
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,720
i might just say if you could go one

615
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,640
slide back i do appreciate that you're

616
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:52,240
using my show

617
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:58,310
good good yeah i watched a number of

618
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,240
videos

619
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:03,360
there we go um well let's let's uh let's

620
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:04,640
keep moving on we've got lots

621
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:07,840
against here um so um i'm sure okay so

622
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,240
here's

623
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,840
your basic thesis here i'm sure people

624
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:11,120
are honestly describing what they saw

625
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,480
but history has taught us that

626
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:13,919
i know what i've seen is a belief that

627
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:15,280
can be independent of the accuracy of

628
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:15,600
the

629
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:18,960
perfect recorder but it can feel like

630
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,600
one so

631
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:21,360
you're basically saying that more or

632
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,200
less that you're not

633
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,120
and i think this is true like we would

634
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:26,880
rather have empirical evidence rather

635
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:28,480
than someone's eyewitness testimony

636
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:31,200
so this nimitz case is largely kind of

637
00:20:33,909 --> 00:20:32,159
eyewitness testimony

638
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,919
so i think that's what you're sort of

639
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:36,080
elucidating there now he says well no

640
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,679
i was saying what i was saying in that

641
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:39,600
tweet that the human memory is not

642
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,240
perfect

643
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,480
i mean obviously you can conclude from

644
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:44,000
that something else but that wasn't what

645
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,360
i was trying to say

646
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:47,200
okay it's just essentially just that

647
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,360
that if someone tells you something that

648
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,120
they remember it might not be a high

649
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,799
fidelity reproduction of what actually

650
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:53,760
happened

651
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,799
okay right and i you know as as dietrich

652
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,080
has talked about memory and i've

653
00:21:01,909 --> 00:21:00,320
my work in virtual reality you know as

654
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,919
we remember stuff we reconstruct it and

655
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,640
it's not

656
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,640
perfect it is flawed so i don't know if

657
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:06,080
there are differences within the various

658
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:08,000
accounts of the nimitz encounter so

659
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:09,679
not everyone is remembering it the same

660
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,520
like you know kevin day says that there

661
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:13,120
was a barrel role involved then there

662
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:14,000
wasn't

663
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:16,240
right right okay well uh let's let's

664
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,679
keep moving on here because i don't have

665
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,799
any disagreement with that

666
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:20,720
um let's get to the juicy stuff so the

667
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:23,120
issue uh so nick says the issue for me

668
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,000
is that there

669
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,840
is there actually craft that have had

670
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,760
the five observable so he's kind of been

671
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:29,039
sort of skeptical about this whole

672
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,880
concept of five observables because we

673
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:32,240
haven't seen any really good evidence or

674
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,880
data

675
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:34,320
um or are we just seeing things that

676
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:35,520
look like they have the fibers of

677
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,880
observable some people say we have so

678
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:37,840
much evidence that it

679
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:39,919
might be real and he sort of disagrees

680
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:40,799
that if you're looking at things

681
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:42,080
individually that it could just be sort

682
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,360
of radar glitches

683
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,120
um and so that's sort of setting the

684
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,960
larger context as to maybe

685
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,799
having a little more skepticism on this

686
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:50,400
whole concept of the five episode rules

687
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:51,919
mostly because we haven't really had any

688
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:52,400
sort of

689
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:56,880
in any kind of incontrovertible way

690
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,240
and i agree with that so the five

691
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:00,400
observables just as a recap anti-gravity

692
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,760
instantaneous acceleration

693
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:04,080
hypersonic velocity low observability

694
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,760
and trans-medium travel

695
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,840
and this is from the history channels uh

696
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,039
sort of graphics

697
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:11,440
um and the whole show now this is

698
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,400
there's an i-team

699
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,400
exclusive that there's some report i

700
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:15,840
suspect this might have come from bass

701
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,200
it's not an official report

702
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:19,120
it's not been officially vetted uh

703
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:20,720
george knapp released it it seems

704
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,600
plausible

705
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:23,200
uh but there was this sort of assessment

706
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:24,320
that they're doing here and they're kind

707
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,360
of going through

708
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,440
and what i see this report is doing is

709
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:28,640
that it's basically saying well the

710
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:29,919
nimitz actually does have

711
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:32,960
all five of the of these uh observables

712
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:33,520
it has

713
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:38,400
acceleration

714
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:40,720
it has hypersonic velocity and has trans

715
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,679
medium travel

716
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,600
right now i think the the provenance of

717
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,919
this document is not great

718
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:47,360
so we can sort of you know agree to

719
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,120
disagree that this is just sort of like

720
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:51,679
you know you know just a hypothesis

721
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,159
right there

722
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:53,600
sorry excuse me real quick like it says

723
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,000
that rather possibly demonstrate it

724
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,720
and i don't think you can really say

725
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,400
demonstrated the five observables

726
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,080
and one of them is possibly demonstrated

727
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:03,679
going underwater there was

728
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:06,240
what evidence was there of that well so

729
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,520
yeah i don't know that i think this

730
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,520
gets into the area where there may be

731
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,679
this was the investigation that the

732
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:13,520
that i i presume that bass did

733
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:15,200
afterwards i would agree it goes very

734
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:16,880
fast and i always agree that it appears

735
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:18,240
to like you know harbor based on the

736
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:19,200
eyewitness account

737
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,360
and i agree it has low observability but

738
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:23,280
i think low observability is a

739
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,039
criteria because that's just

740
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:26,960
basically saying all ufos are hard to

741
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:29,360
see which is just a function of the low

742
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,880
information zone what about anti-gravity

743
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,480
well anti-gravity just means hovering

744
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,640
which is what i mentioned okay

745
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:39,440
so uh my my sort of thesis is that it's

746
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:40,080
possible

747
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,559
that given what the testimony is from

748
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,320
fraver and dietrich that

749
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:46,240
given the five observables it's possible

750
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:47,360
that the nimitz

751
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:49,760
uh using this great uh little badge from

752
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,559
the signal

753
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:52,400
uh could potentially exhibit all of

754
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,559
these right but we all the data for that

755
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:56,480
is going to be sort of classified

756
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:57,600
everything is possible

757
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,600
yeah uh so um my question to you mick is

758
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:04,320
uh based upon this description that you

759
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:05,360
have here

760
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,760
uh how do you claim that what you're

761
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:09,360
doing here is actually removing false

762
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,720
pieces of evidence

763
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:12,480
no no i don't i think what i'm doing

764
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:14,240
here is presenting a possible hypothesis

765
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:15,840
that might explain

766
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,640
the events when i'm removing false

767
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,640
pieces of evidence it's usually things

768
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,799
where people have made particular claims

769
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:24,640
about evidence

770
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:26,799
uh that don't hold up to scrutiny like

771
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:27,840
with the

772
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,799
the nimitz tic tac video uh i think i

773
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:32,320
would say i've debunked certain claims

774
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,159
about that the claim that it shoots off

775
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:36,320
to the side with high velocity by noting

776
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,440
that the camera is just

777
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,799
losing lock and then the object

778
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,559
continues off to the side with the same

779
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,080
angular velocity that the camera was

780
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:43,919
previously tracking

781
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:45,760
and that the underwood just basically

782
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:47,279
was cycling through the camera modes and

783
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,480
he lost lock

784
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,000
this isn't that type of thing this isn't

785
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,240
debunking this is just

786
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:55,200
postulating a hypothesis that i feel is

787
00:24:58,870 --> 00:24:56,559
worth considering

788
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,880
okay okay well i think that like i said

789
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,559
this is what i think is probably your

790
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,840
worst uh case and

791
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,760
i think generally it's the the least

792
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:04,960
amount of information that's out there

793
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,360
so

794
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:07,200
people people ask me what i thought and

795
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,799
so i what am i supposed to do just throw

796
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,480
my hands to say i have no idea

797
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,720
it's a possible explanation and i think

798
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:14,320
it's uh

799
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:16,720
probably more likely than aliens right i

800
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:17,360
think the question

801
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,559
you mentioned aliens of course but i

802
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:20,480
still think it's more likely right right

803
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:21,520
i just wanted to point out real quick

804
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,320
and i thought

805
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:24,159
um i think that i thought this might

806
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:25,520
have been where what the

807
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:27,760
point kent was making was that you know

808
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,159
your your goal is to debunk and i think

809
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:32,159
some people can get confused when you

810
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,159
throw out a hypothesis

811
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,480
right okay well i mean my entire life is

812
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,320
devoted so every every word i

813
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,799
say is trying to prove somebody wrong

814
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,320
sometimes i'm just uh

815
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:43,760
trying to figure things out i mean

816
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:45,840
that's really the ultimate goal here

817
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:47,120
is to try to figure out what these

818
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,480
things are and so when i'm in

819
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,640
investigating a ufo case it doesn't mean

820
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,080
i am

821
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,960
just trying to falsify the et hypothesis

822
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,159
and the the way i

823
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,080
the way i investigate is figuring out

824
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,679
what's actually there

825
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:01,120
and we don't have enough information in

826
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:02,159
this case to actually make a

827
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,600
determination of what's actually there

828
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:05,440
but we can still put hypothesis

829
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:08,240
hypotheses out there and see if they are

830
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,520
falsifiable

831
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:11,200
okay all right that's fair enough i'm

832
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,640
happy with that let's let's move on

833
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,000
may i just comment on one thing i'm

834
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:15,679
sorry very quickly yeah because

835
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,720
there's a lot of things to get through

836
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,120
here yeah

837
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,320
um the thing that i kind of always find

838
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,400
a little issue with is that you call it

839
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:25,679
it feels like you're always fighting

840
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:27,760
this e.t hypothesis

841
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:30,080
when i feel like that hypothesis is not

842
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:30,799
really being

843
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:33,919
thrown out uh by the people

844
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,360
yeah i see what you're saying and that's

845
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,120
a point i get a lot so

846
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,720
what i would say there is what i'm

847
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:40,960
fighting here not really fighting but

848
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,120
presenting an alternative hypothesis

849
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:45,840
is the uh advanced technology hypothesis

850
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:46,240
the

851
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,760
uh

852
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,279
you know over a hundred g's or a

853
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,960
thousand g's or five thousand g's in the

854
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:54,799
case of the the radar data

855
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,120
uh that is that is the hypothesis that

856
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:59,360
you know those are accurate readings and

857
00:27:01,269 --> 00:27:00,880
this thing actually represented a real

858
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:01,279
object

859
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:02,799
physically moving from one spot to

860
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:04,640
another i'm presenting an alternative

861
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:06,000
hypothesis to that

862
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,279
now with the you know the extreme

863
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,799
technology that could be like a foreign

864
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:10,080
embassy or it could be like

865
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,520
extraterrestrials or it could be ultra

866
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:13,360
terrestrials or whatever but

867
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:15,440
you know it's the the incredible

868
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,400
emotions

869
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:18,720
that i'm presenting an alternative to

870
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:19,440
got it

871
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,440
okay all right well let's move on uh

872
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:23,120
because nick i know you've talked about

873
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:24,159
your process of

874
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:27,200
a commer uh how do you say it

875
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:33,350
a commercial a comeric ranking like

876
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,559
occam's razor but with a geek on the end

877
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:38,960
it's hard to say okay i have a problem

878
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:39,919
with it i don't know if i fully

879
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,679
understand it ranked list

880
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:44,320
i'm gonna like say okay i'm gonna sort

881
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:44,720
of give

882
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:47,279
my uh understanding of it so my

883
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:48,559
understanding is that you are

884
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:50,799
trying to sort of bubble rank uh the

885
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,600
different

886
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:54,000
hypotheses and like the most likely is

887
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,600
rising to the top is that right

888
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:58,320
uh well yes i mean obviously that's what

889
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:58,880
would happen

890
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:01,360
uh but yeah it doesn't mean that it's

891
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:02,080
the only

892
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,760
answer when it rises to the top that's

893
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:05,120
the whole point is that you have a list

894
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:05,679
of things

895
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:07,120
often you have like a one and two that

896
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,880
are very close uh

897
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:10,559
like i flip-flop sometimes with some of

898
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,679
them like when i originally looked at

899
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,200
the go fast video it was like

900
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,960
uh bird was the number one hypothesis

901
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,559
and bloom was the number two hypothesis

902
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,720
more analysis flipped that around and

903
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:21,039
now i'm kind of like more like 90

904
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,200
balloon and maybe like five percent bird

905
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,159
and then five percent other

906
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,240
okay and uh so i guess one of the things

907
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,320
i have a question on is that if you have

908
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,399
you seem to be pretty against the et

909
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,480
hypothesis how do you prevent that

910
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:36,799
uh sort of seeping into as a bias

911
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:37,760
against that

912
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,549
well uh it's very difficult i guess

913
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:46,559
because you know my experience has been

914
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,559
that the et hypothesis has not been a

915
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:49,840
good explanation for

916
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:52,720
any of the the uh the cases in the last

917
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,520
70 years

918
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:55,120
it's not really been a number one

919
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,799
hypothesis uh

920
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:59,200
just just simply because it's it's you

921
00:29:01,269 --> 00:29:00,320
know an extraordinary thing that

922
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:01,279
requires

923
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:05,039
uh kind of uh imagining uh

924
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,799
essentially an entire extra universe of

925
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:08,480
things whereas

926
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:10,559
the other hypotheses are just a fairly

927
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,679
small number of things

928
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,679
from occam's razor do not multiply

929
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:15,440
entities unnecessarily

930
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,080
uh it naturally when you do the bubble

931
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,840
comparison like seeing you is this thing

932
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:21,120
higher than the other on the list it

933
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,000
naturally

934
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,919
seems to be lower on the list so it goes

935
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,200
down to the bottom

936
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:27,760
it is my my but do i have a bias against

937
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:29,279
it i mean sure perhaps

938
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,559
but uh i am quite open about what i

939
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:33,919
think and the reasoning i use

940
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:36,799
and the the various tests and whatever i

941
00:30:04,710 --> 00:29:37,200
i

942
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:04,720
standard uh method have you heard of uh

943
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:05,840
hearers analysis

944
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,919
analysis needs of competing hypotheses

945
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,440
yeah i was just i was just reading that

946
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:11,200
the other day someone else sent it to me

947
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:13,440
uh i kind of liked it that chapter is

948
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:14,720
that is that the

949
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:17,120
is that i think what i read the last

950
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,080
chapter which

951
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:20,320
has kind of a executive summary and it

952
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,440
does actually talk about something

953
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:23,120
that's kind of similar to the

954
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:25,360
um academic ranking like you make a list

955
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,320
of things and then you

956
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:28,240
you kind of sort them but they they talk

957
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,159
more about eliminating things and

958
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,399
promoting things correct that's that's

959
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,320
my beef with your acaramic

960
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:36,080
thinking is that doing the actually the

961
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:37,200
opposite thing of what you're supposed

962
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,679
to do

963
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:38,799
which is trying to disprove the

964
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:40,000
hypotheses which means that you're

965
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:41,360
trying to actively go out

966
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,960
and disprove your hypothesis rather than

967
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:44,480
improving it so in some ways

968
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,880
your academic ranking system is kind of

969
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:47,760
creating a

970
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:50,880
confirmation bias feedback loop

971
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,720
um really

972
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:57,039
it's a list of hypotheses and you know

973
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,559
we're comparing one against the other

974
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:00,080
but how would that create a confirmation

975
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,600
bias feedback loop well i guess i'll

976
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:02,480
give an example

977
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,880
for uh i'm going to take your rotating

978
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:06,240
glare and i'm going to try to disprove

979
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:06,480
it

980
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,279
uh in the next video so i'll sort of

981
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,200
give a live example of that

982
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:13,919
but in other words there's a whole uh

983
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,320
whole

984
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,399
area of intelligence analysis and

985
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:18,000
there's specific best practices

986
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:19,039
and some of the things you're doing are

987
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,960
not are the best practices that's mine i

988
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:22,320
kind of liked that chapter when i read

989
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,720
it

990
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,919
i don't think i read the chapter eight i

991
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:25,679
read the last chapter in the book but i

992
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:26,320
i

993
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:56,960
want to use that as an excuse too much

994
00:31:59,590 --> 00:31:57,519
but

995
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,600
it it kind of is the reason i put these

996
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:00,960
short things out

997
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,640
and you know sometimes late at night and

998
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:04,320
if you want to get to what i'm actually

999
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,880
saying

1000
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,880
yeah ask me here and now what i actually

1001
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,480
think well i guess what i'm saying is

1002
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:10,000
that you're sort of using hyperbolic

1003
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:11,440
language that is making conclusions

1004
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:12,640
above and beyond the evidence that

1005
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,840
you've been able to show you have not

1006
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,600
just ruined the eta hypothesis

1007
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:18,000
and you have not in any situation here

1008
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:19,840
so when you say not aliens and no aliens

1009
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:21,039
you're making you're giving an illusion

1010
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,919
as if that you've

1011
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,120
done something to kind of disprove it

1012
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,360
but you really haven't yeah

1013
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:27,440
yeah right i could see that but you know

1014
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,640
you're kind of talking about it's the

1015
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:30,000
way that you say it and you know you

1016
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:31,600
phrase your tweet wrong i mean like

1017
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:32,240
these are

1018
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,919
minor points that we could thrash out

1019
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,919
well it's language though i i don't it's

1020
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:36,720
not just it's

1021
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:40,880
languages with the way i'm communicating

1022
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,200
with

1023
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:43,519
well it's it's not just that you are

1024
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:45,200
actually going above and beyond what you

1025
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:46,240
know

1026
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:49,360
you said when you say in this language

1027
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:51,120
it's uh you're just saying like i

1028
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:53,039
shouldn't have said no aliens

1029
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,559
i should have said based on the evidence

1030
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:56,080
there's almost certainly no er there's

1031
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:56,799
no aliens

1032
00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:00,399
it seems very unlikely like that tweet

1033
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,440
is uh 280 characters i know i i if you

1034
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:05,039
read that

1035
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,480
if you go read my tweet account i think

1036
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:08,080
on almost every single tweet i have it

1037
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:09,600
almost goes up to the very limit right

1038
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:10,320
he's actually

1039
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:12,320
editing it and spitting things in but

1040
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:13,679
and yeah in that you you

1041
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:15,679
kind of lose things and unfortunately

1042
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,960
okay and

1043
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,559
nick does clarify his point in that

1044
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:20,000
upper left tweet right saying that they

1045
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,240
are

1046
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,480
no this is not very high yes yes yes i

1047
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,840
guess i mean that's what i'm saying

1048
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,799
that's why i put it in there i'm not

1049
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:26,640
trying to just cherry pick because nick

1050
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,279
does show

1051
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:29,519
sort of a nuance here but i guess

1052
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:31,679
there's also the corbell video i say no

1053
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:32,480
aliens

1054
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:38,000
it's kind of like a point i don't think

1055
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,519
you have any right to be able to say no

1056
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:41,039
aliens that's my fault

1057
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:42,640
i would just like to say i i think you

1058
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:44,480
you think it's a point mick um but i

1059
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:45,840
think the problem is there are people

1060
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,559
out there who

1061
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,720
watch your tweets who and specifically

1062
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,240
the people who who

1063
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,799
say they've they are experiencers or who

1064
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:54,799
who have direct knowledge or whatever

1065
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,799
those are the people that are going how

1066
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:58,640
can you possibly be so

1067
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,880
certain yeah and i think that's what

1068
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,399
that's what people feel like

1069
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,159
it's it's an issue i get all the time

1070
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,480
and uh i essentially you've got to

1071
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:09,280
add uh these these ridiculous qualifiers

1072
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,399
all the time

1073
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:13,520
well hold on like almost certainly i

1074
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:16,480
i there is no evidence of these things

1075
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,560
not aliens i think pretty much covers it

1076
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:20,320
okay here's my argument part of the

1077
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:21,839
skepticism the tradition of

1078
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,000
skepticism is suspending judgment when

1079
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:25,679
you say no aliens are not aliens that's

1080
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,960
doing the opposite of suspending

1081
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,399
judgment that's actually

1082
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:30,320
declaring a disbelief that's different

1083
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:32,000
than the tradition of skepticism

1084
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:33,679
you're not tweeting some tradition it's

1085
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,359
all about suspending judgment

1086
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:37,280
you know and you know i want to you know

1087
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:38,720
defend vic here i think that in both

1088
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:40,079
those tweets it's pretty obviously

1089
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:40,560
implied

1090
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:43,359
no evidence of aliens like these

1091
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:44,399
situations no

1092
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:45,679
it's not the bottom left one is

1093
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:48,079
absolutely not it says not aliens rather

1094
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,560
yeah i think i actually think there's

1095
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:52,320
100 percent evidence that this is not

1096
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,960
aliens

1097
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,240
but look at the context okay it's a

1098
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:56,399
quick analysis

1099
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:57,599
you're just quibbling with the way i'm

1100
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,230
let me go for it let me let's let's move

1101
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,839
on i don't know i've said many many many

1102
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,760
times that aliens are on the list and we

1103
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:07,359
there it is like i know but you are

1104
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:08,720
you're you're basically eliminating from

1105
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,160
the list here in these tweets and

1106
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:12,160
in a rhetorical strategy if you just

1107
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:13,680
read them uh by themselves

1108
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:17,040
yes this is careless it's not good

1109
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,800
debunking it's not being a good skeptic

1110
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,960
you're you need to okay i'm gonna move

1111
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,000
on because

1112
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:24,240
i think what i see here is that you also

1113
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:25,520
have this sort of shaming thing that you

1114
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,560
do sometimes like

1115
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,960
they believe in aliens uh or who said

1116
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:30,240
anything about aliens well pretty much

1117
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:30,800
everyone

1118
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:33,119
oh that's that's ridiculous that that's

1119
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:34,480
the very specific thing that we're

1120
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:35,680
talking about there because

1121
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,839
people are always saying uh you know i

1122
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:39,119
didn't mention aliens

1123
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,560
this is mentioning a specific thing in

1124
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,320
the ufo community where people try to

1125
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,400
avoid talking about aliens and they say

1126
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:46,079
who's talking about aliens and so i'm

1127
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:47,119
calling that out

1128
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,800
i'm not mocking them for talking about

1129
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,720
aliens i'm talking about this trope that

1130
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:52,400
they have of saying oh nobody mentioned

1131
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:53,200
aliens

1132
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,280
and so that's what that's about there's

1133
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:57,359
a there's a deeper social cultural

1134
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:58,000
stigma that

1135
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:59,280
came up here and i think that some of

1136
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:01,119
the rhetoric sometimes you know when you

1137
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,800
start to say oh they believe in aliens

1138
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:03,920
they believe in the extraterrestrial

1139
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:05,040
hypothesis it's sort of

1140
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,880
you know it it could be read in certain

1141
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:08,240
circles in a way of

1142
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:09,760
basically making fun of yeah well you

1143
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:11,119
can read things different ways and

1144
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,640
people will and you can't please all of

1145
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:14,400
the people that you know my intent here

1146
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:15,920
isn't to mock people i'm

1147
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,440
good friends with lots of people who are

1148
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,440
ufo experiencers and uh you know i

1149
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:21,359
respect their experience even if i don't

1150
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,200
think they actually saw aliens

1151
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,800
well here in this article you say i

1152
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:27,280
study at ufos and i don't believe the

1153
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:28,480
alien hype

1154
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,040
um so there's a part of you rather than

1155
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:32,800
you know there's three doc

1156
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:35,920
doxastic positions

1157
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,720
belief disbelief or suspended judgment

1158
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:40,240
most skeptics are suspending judgment

1159
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,760
but you're kind of in some ways

1160
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:43,920
putting yourself in the disbeliever

1161
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:44,960
realm i don't know if that's

1162
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:46,400
really the alien hype it doesn't say i

1163
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,800
don't believe in aliens okay

1164
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,280
all right so i'll uh i'll let that go uh

1165
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:53,280
because uh you know that's that's fair

1166
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:55,200
um okay so that's the problem i had with

1167
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:56,720
the aquamarine uh ranking let's move

1168
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,680
into sort of

1169
00:37:01,270 --> 00:37:00,000
my the core thesis that the problem i

1170
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:01,280
have with the gimbal rotating glare

1171
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:02,640
hypothesis

1172
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,839
okay all right so my uh recap again

1173
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:08,160
is that um there was what you say is

1174
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:09,520
some sort of distant plane

1175
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,960
um it's sort of mundane either a

1176
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,440
friendly plane or a commercial plane

1177
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,200
uh that it might be a fighter jet uh and

1178
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,200
that just because we see in this video

1179
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:19,040
a rotation that it could actually be

1180
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:20,720
sort of an illusion based upon this

1181
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:21,440
glare

1182
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,800
that is happening in this rotating

1183
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:25,280
gimbal uh that is also rotating and that

1184
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,720
um you know you've shown many different

1185
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:28,400
times this sort of rotating glare

1186
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,440
right um so um

1187
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:33,599
that it's not it's not sort of anything

1188
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:34,960
uh

1189
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:39,280
other than a mundane project um

1190
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:41,520
no i mean it's it's showing that the the

1191
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,560
rotation is

1192
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,160
probably a rotating glare or not a

1193
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:46,560
rotating object

1194
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:49,599
got it okay so and then uh your first

1195
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,200
this was just a few days after the very

1196
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:52,640
first new york times article that's

1197
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:53,280
right

1198
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,960
and you said it might be that it's a

1199
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,640
fighter jet and then

1200
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:58,560
this doesn't prove the ufo is just a

1201
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:00,800
distant plane with some infrared glare

1202
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:03,040
um so at this point this is from the

1203
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,240
psychology of intelligence

1204
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:06,320
analysis so back in december 2017 where

1205
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,440
would you say

1206
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:09,440
your likelihood of how confident you

1207
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,640
were in this theory

1208
00:38:19,990 --> 00:38:16,150
uh which theory that it that it might be

1209
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:21,829
well i think i became more confident

1210
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:23,680
over time after i did some tests

1211
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:26,960
and uh but probably like 80 maybe okay

1212
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:29,440
okay so then uh then you have this new

1213
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:30,800
footage that comes out from your times

1214
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:32,320
they they released

1215
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:34,640
a high resolution so you produced a new

1216
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,320
video in june 2019

1217
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:38,240
and you say the entire effect is just

1218
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,920
the camera effect is it solved you don't

1219
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:40,640
know what it is

1220
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:42,880
but the the shape is solved the rotation

1221
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:45,520
is solved the glow and aura is solved

1222
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,800
uh and also we're looking at something

1223
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,720
hot something like a jet mass way and

1224
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:50,000
there's nothing to indicate any advanced

1225
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,920
technology

1226
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:53,200
so there's an increase of your

1227
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,640
confidence here just even the language

1228
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,000
of you saying that it's solved

1229
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:58,480
that it's yes it's it's very specific

1230
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:59,839
though what i'm talking about there i'm

1231
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,480
saying that

1232
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,920
the shape is solved that the shape is a

1233
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:03,599
glare and the rotation is solved because

1234
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,400
we can see the

1235
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,720
the light field in the the the sky

1236
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,640
rotate the aura resolved but that was a

1237
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,760
different thing that was

1238
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,359
like comparing it to other infrared

1239
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:12,880
footage and you see the white aura

1240
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:14,000
around it

1241
00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:15,359
and that it's obviously looking at

1242
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,880
something hot we know that already and

1243
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:18,320
it's something like a jet engine miles

1244
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,359
away is true

1245
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,119
and nothing to advance indicate any

1246
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,960
advanced technology whereas before

1247
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:24,160
people thought there was because they

1248
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:25,200
thought that this thing couldn't

1249
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:26,320
aerodynamically go

1250
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:28,240
on its end so yes i agree with all of

1251
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:29,839
that but it's quite specific

1252
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:33,040
okay perfect so i think i i also noticed

1253
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:34,160
that there was an increase of your

1254
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:34,720
confidence

1255
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:37,599
um uh over time um on this issue yeah

1256
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:37,920
it's

1257
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:41,440
like

1258
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:43,200
getting more specific and various

1259
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,560
different parts of it whereas before it

1260
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,160
was kind of a general hypothesis

1261
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,160
but yeah it's more detailed hypothesis

1262
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,079
that it explains more so

1263
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,280
i i would say it's more likely okay uh

1264
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:54,720
so here's a couple of clips that i

1265
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,240
personally also have a problem with

1266
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:57,920
where you say things like so what we're

1267
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,920
looking at is a tale of the end of a jet

1268
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:01,359
plane first of all we don't know

1269
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:03,040
that it is but you're saying on national

1270
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,400
tv that it is

1271
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,920
um i think you're going too far just

1272
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,520
saying that it is um

1273
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,920
i agree i agree i should have had more

1274
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:11,280
time there but unfortunately i had

1275
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:14,160
about four minutes to explain uh all

1276
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:15,760
four videos i thought i only got

1277
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:17,040
three of them right so there's a

1278
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:18,800
compression i guess a parallel here

1279
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:21,200
between both twitter and national tv

1280
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,560
where you say things like all these

1281
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:25,119
things have very reasonable explanations

1282
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,720
uh nothing to worry about you know

1283
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:28,400
essentially uh only the ones we have

1284
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,280
video evidence for

1285
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,440
right um uh i agree with that that's not

1286
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:33,040
a compression that's that's true they

1287
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,440
all have very reasonable explanations

1288
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:37,359
like plausible hypotheses that fit

1289
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:40,720
the facts uh i

1290
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,079
yeah i would agree with that all right

1291
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,079
so now i'm going to try to disprove your

1292
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:45,839
hypothesis are you ready sure

1293
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:48,640
okay let's do it well first actually

1294
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:49,680
before i do that

1295
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,440
um you had a conversation with el lue

1296
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:52,880
alexander it was a very interesting

1297
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:53,839
interaction here

1298
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:56,480
um essentially uh you asked lou about

1299
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:58,400
your uh rotating glare hypothesis he was

1300
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,440
not familiar with it

1301
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:01,119
you tried to explain it to him over the

1302
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:02,800
course of like over a minute

1303
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,560
uh he there was things that there's like

1304
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:06,000
a miscommunication where he

1305
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,200
didn't watch all the videos it probably

1306
00:41:09,270 --> 00:41:08,880
would better to watch the video then you

1307
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,280
try to

1308
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,119
explain it on the spot so there's like a

1309
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:13,040
back and forth and then eventually

1310
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,200
you said well i'm i'm looking at a

1311
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:17,040
basically the tailpipe of an f-18

1312
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:18,400
he's like no no i understand what you're

1313
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,319
saying i have to respectfully disagree

1314
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,400
uh and then i saw you a number of times

1315
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:24,240
say that louis elizondo didn't even look

1316
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,200
at my theory

1317
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,880
what are they doing uh it was almost

1318
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:28,480
used you're almost using it as like the

1319
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:29,440
justification

1320
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:32,800
of um that your theory was good like so

1321
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,599
good

1322
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,839
that um you know that lou wasn't even

1323
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:37,119
looking at it and what are they doing

1324
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:38,079
over there

1325
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:39,920
no i mean that doesn't make any sense

1326
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:41,280
why would it be so good that they

1327
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,800
wouldn't look at it

1328
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:44,400
well i guess but i heard you say it a

1329
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:45,839
number of times that lou

1330
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,599
uh did you think he hadn't looked at it

1331
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:49,280
yes that's all yeah i don't think that's

1332
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:49,680
why

1333
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,960
there's anything about it that says

1334
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:53,040
something about him okay well i guess

1335
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:54,160
the question here's the question that i

1336
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:55,040
have though because i

1337
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,400
when i hear you talk about that

1338
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:58,319
interaction i often air you sort of

1339
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:59,760
bring up that part that lou didn't

1340
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:00,480
understand that

1341
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:02,720
but i guess here's the question what's

1342
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:04,640
that i think it's very telling that he

1343
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:07,200
wasn't familiar with the exact

1344
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:10,240
hypothesis what was it telling me it

1345
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:11,599
means that they've never actually

1346
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,040
considered it

1347
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,599
uh when it seems to me in a lot of other

1348
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,960
people that it's a fairly obvious

1349
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:18,480
explanation for what we're seeing on

1350
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,200
screen so

1351
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,040
it shows to me that the quality of their

1352
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,280
analysis really isn't very good

1353
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:25,200
got it okay that's that's that's the

1354
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,640
point i was trying to roll out

1355
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:29,359
um now here's what i want to try to ask

1356
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,400
you a question

1357
00:42:35,109 --> 00:42:32,640
can you go back in time and try to steal

1358
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:35,119
man what lou elizondo's response to you

1359
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:35,920
was

1360
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:38,240
yeah he's saying that he has secret

1361
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:39,280
information

1362
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:42,160
that i'm not privy to but he was that

1363
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:43,920
demonstrates that it was actually a

1364
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:44,880
rotating

1365
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:48,480
object okay so what he said uh i

1366
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,240
have some different things there's um

1367
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:52,319
there's more than just the video itself

1368
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:54,000
his main point that i want to draw here

1369
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:55,760
is that we try to avoid doing single

1370
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:57,040
source reporting

1371
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,480
so in other words that there's lots of

1372
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,240
other contextual information from gun

1373
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,760
camera footage to eyewitness

1374
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,920
testimony to hawk our radar information

1375
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:05,599
to buy one data from the princeton and

1376
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:06,000
so

1377
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:07,599
when i hear you talk about your

1378
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,920
interactions with lou i don't hear you

1379
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,520
really integrating the fact that you're

1380
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,599
only looking at one piece of information

1381
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,200
in a much broader context that you don't

1382
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,200
have full access to

1383
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,680
well um you think i should be bringing

1384
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,640
that up all the time

1385
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,560
absolutely claims people make specific

1386
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:23,920
claims about the video

1387
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:25,839
and i analyze those specific claims that

1388
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,160
people make people say this video shows

1389
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,319
a rotating object and they don't say

1390
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,400
this video shows a rotating object and i

1391
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:34,079
have some secret information about it

1392
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:35,119
that proves this

1393
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,640
they say it without the secret

1394
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,640
information that it shows that

1395
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:40,000
quite sure maybe there is secret

1396
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:42,720
information i doubt that there is

1397
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:45,040
secret information and i think lou may

1398
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:46,880
be exaggerating you know the other

1399
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:48,160
things that he knows about this

1400
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,599
particular case

1401
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:51,920
uh and i would stand by my hypothesis

1402
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:53,760
there but yeah no i

1403
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,480
obviously if there is other information

1404
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:57,680
that might disprove

1405
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:00,960
my argument but i i'm not aware of this

1406
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:03,200
information and loo's claims about it

1407
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,319
are pretty vague

1408
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,640
so yeah i've got to go with what i know

1409
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:08,480
well part of so yes what you say here in

1410
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:10,079
this response it'd be great if i had the

1411
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,680
information but my point is that if

1412
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:13,119
there may be this other data but my

1413
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:14,480
point is that other people are taking

1414
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:15,440
the video itself

1415
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:17,920
i.e chat underwood and the identified

1416
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,720
television so

1417
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:20,480
they're saying looking at just the video

1418
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,160
itself that they can say that there's

1419
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:23,920
something amazing that's happening

1420
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:26,560
by just only looking at the video right

1421
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:27,680
now

1422
00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:29,040
the fleur video and you were talking

1423
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:31,200
about the gimbal video oh well i guess

1424
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,119
um i don't i thought you were talking

1425
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:35,040
about this is a sort of a direct quote

1426
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,440
from

1427
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:37,200
uh this conversation so whatever

1428
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:38,319
contextual information that you're

1429
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,920
talking about with lozando you you

1430
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:41,200
specifically mentioned chad underwood

1431
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:42,480
and unidentified

1432
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:45,599
um as the sort of moving option so all

1433
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:45,839
right

1434
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:46,640
i'm just talking about the different

1435
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,839
videos that's all the gimbal video

1436
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:49,680
though oh yeah that's the flare video

1437
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:50,160
right

1438
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:53,119
yeah um okay so um both of them i think

1439
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:53,440
are

1440
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:56,800
both of the flear and the gimbal

1441
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:59,119
both rely upon there being a friendly

1442
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:00,319
jet though correct

1443
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,440
like a friendly uh well some other jets

1444
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:05,040
some other japanese right so probably

1445
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:06,319
friendly i mean like you'd be very

1446
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:08,160
unlikely for an adversary jets to be in

1447
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:09,599
the in the neighborhood

1448
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:11,680
it may be a military jet or it may be a

1449
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:12,720
civilian jet

1450
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,560
okay well i'm gonna i'm gonna start to

1451
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:16,400
disprove this hypothesis now

1452
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:17,920
okay wait before you do that ken real

1453
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:19,440
quick just because we're halfway through

1454
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:20,720
the show and i want to remind everybody

1455
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:22,400
if you're enjoying this conversation

1456
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,520
do me a favor share like subscribe uh

1457
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:27,040
tell people that there's a very good

1458
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,720
conversation happening right now

1459
00:45:31,829 --> 00:45:30,160
uh mick are you feeling good how you

1460
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,839
feeling just want to do a quick check on

1461
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,359
you doing good yeah kent you're doing

1462
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,040
good

1463
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,960
look i'm really enjoying the hell out of

1464
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:38,800
this conversation i'm loving the slides

1465
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,920
people and the folks are loving slides

1466
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:41,920
we have a poll going up to see

1467
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:44,800
who's quote unquote won the debate uh so

1468
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:46,160
we're having a great time so

1469
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:48,160
let us let us continue if people gain

1470
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,520
knowledge and everybody wins

1471
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,520
yes this is a wonderful conversation and

1472
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:53,280
and hopefully we'll walk away both

1473
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:54,079
saying hey

1474
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:55,200
i didn't know that about mick i didn't

1475
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:57,040
know that about kent and we could have a

1476
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:58,160
good day for the rest of the day but

1477
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,960
yeah i love it

1478
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,880
this is so much fun so continue please

1479
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,160
sorry got it got it okay

1480
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,839
uh i'm gonna click this hide okay good

1481
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:05,359
that that's that was by the way this is

1482
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:07,119
your show today kent this is the

1483
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:08,880
the can't buy an identified celebrity

1484
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:10,880
review just wait

1485
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,400
but does mick get to come back next

1486
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:14,560
friday with a slide deck yeah

1487
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:16,480
yeah anytime anything slight's fine i

1488
00:46:20,309 --> 00:46:18,800
mean they're all i'm just saying

1489
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,319
i'm trying to steal man i'm trying to

1490
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:22,240
steal man mixed arguments and then break

1491
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:23,440
them down and it's easier to do with

1492
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,839
slides

1493
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:25,440
all right let's move on because i think

1494
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,760
that west's uh rotating glare theory

1495
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:29,520
solely relies upon this being a friendly

1496
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,839
f a 18 jet or a commercial plane

1497
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:34,720
okay that's fair all right wait so okay

1498
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:35,920
so we're talking about

1499
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:38,400
gimbal now right either one i'm going to

1500
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:39,680
say either one

1501
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:43,280
yeah yes okay well i'm i'm on the gimbal

1502
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:44,160
now so let's just

1503
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:46,720
do gimbal okay um because they both do

1504
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:48,160
gimbal they both sort of happen at the

1505
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:49,280
same time right

1506
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:51,040
you probably got a much better case with

1507
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,480
with player one though

1508
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:54,720
all right well let's let's keep going

1509
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,520
all right so

1510
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:57,839
um this is from a a tweet from ryan

1511
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,720
graves he says

1512
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:00,240
uh i recognize this isn't fair for me to

1513
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,760
be able to do this however

1514
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,200
there's no argument because of the

1515
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:06,000
sensor radar data link pid iff airplane

1516
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,119
schedule geographic

1517
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,040
location data all these additional

1518
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:11,119
information a piece of information

1519
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,119
that are basically telling the fighter

1520
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:14,960
jets who's friendly and who's not

1521
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:17,119
so let's break that down a little bit so

1522
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:18,560
um on the essay

1523
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:19,920
which is the situational awareness

1524
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,839
screen uh there's a quote saying there's

1525
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:22,880
a whole fleet of them so

1526
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:24,319
uh with the gimbal there's more than

1527
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:25,839
just one so there's other things going

1528
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,480
on there

1529
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,800
right and um there's a great video from

1530
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:30,000
alphacheck i know i don't know if you've

1531
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,599
had a chance to talk to alphacheck yet

1532
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,359
but basically he goes through a whole

1533
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,520
sensor running through all the different

1534
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:37,680
sensors radar datalink link16 and shared

1535
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:39,040
situational awareness

1536
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:40,400
meaning that if there is something

1537
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:42,000
that's being tracked they pretty much

1538
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:43,680
know whether it's friendly or not

1539
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,559
right so uh i think even at this point

1540
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:48,160
if if there is something that is being

1541
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:49,520
tracked and it's not already in the

1542
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:50,960
system then that's a problem

1543
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:53,440
uh so my assumption is that anything

1544
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:55,040
that is in a situation like this

1545
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:57,359
has already automatically eliminated uh

1546
00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:58,319
whether or not it is

1547
00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:59,920
a friendly now let's go through some of

1548
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,760
the other points of why i'm saying that

1549
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,920
because there's also the iff that's

1550
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:05,520
identification friend or foe that's the

1551
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:06,160
a

1552
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:15,760
there's

1553
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:20,720
been lots of different uh uh

1554
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:22,000
discussions around that there was

1555
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,079
jamming uh active jamming from

1556
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,760
uh uh chat underwood this is you're

1557
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:27,760
going back to this is the flare one case

1558
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:28,800
it's just well i'm sort of

1559
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:31,680
i think uh it's unclear as to which ones

1560
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,280
because i know that nimitz uh

1561
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:36,240
and uh alpha check's argument was really

1562
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:37,760
about uh the flare one

1563
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,839
uh video because not more information

1564
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,040
about that in the

1565
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:43,040
uh preliminary assessment of the uap

1566
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:44,240
that came out from the

1567
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,200
office of director of national

1568
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:46,960
intelligence there's a phrase that says

1569
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:48,800
in a small number of cases

1570
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,359
military aircraft systems processed

1571
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:53,440
radio frequency energy associated with

1572
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:55,280
uap sightings in other words

1573
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:57,119
they're getting jammed they're receiving

1574
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,079
rf signals that's a terrible reach

1575
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:02,000
uh it means that radio frequency

1576
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:03,920
information came from

1577
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,920
these uh these objects that they thought

1578
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:07,440
and they recorded it it could be just

1579
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:08,640
like the radio signal

1580
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,000
they're transmitting some kind of radio

1581
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:12,000
data like consumer drones transmit a

1582
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:13,920
video signal back to the base

1583
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:16,400
it doesn't mean that it's jamming okay

1584
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:16,960
so

1585
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:18,640
uh that's an assumption that i'm making

1586
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:20,160
uh that may be wrong but

1587
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:21,200
my point is that there's other

1588
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:22,640
eyewitness testimony here from a number

1589
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:24,079
of different pilots have said with some

1590
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:25,200
of these objects

1591
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:26,559
they were jamming and if it wasn't

1592
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:28,960
friendly uh jamming's an act of war mick

1593
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:30,160
and so if you're if you're getting

1594
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,800
jammed

1595
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:32,880
that's not a family uh jet it's

1596
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,559
something that's definitely not

1597
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,800
like mosaic jet i know this is alpha

1598
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,920
check's argument but

1599
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,760
i disagreed with him and i've explained

1600
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:41,520
a few times why i disagree with him

1601
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:44,079
and you know basically like what we have

1602
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,119
on the video

1603
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,760
is just a pure visual thing we don't

1604
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:49,680
have any indication that it was

1605
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,720
a a track acquired from

1606
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:54,720
a red air lock and if we do we don't

1607
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:56,559
know if it's a track acquired from

1608
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,280
a an accurate radar like you just said

1609
00:50:01,750 --> 00:50:00,559
you know there was jamming you talk

1610
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:01,760
about all this jamming so

1611
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,599
if the radar was being jammed how do we

1612
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:04,880
transition from

1613
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:08,160
radar to uh the ad flier and if we go

1614
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,119
back to

1615
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,920
the the the the atip report that was

1616
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:13,440
carried out by interviewing the people

1617
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:14,720
who were there and i think

1618
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,839
including chad underwood uh it says in

1619
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:18,800
that report

1620
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:20,880
that there was no jamming and there was

1621
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:22,880
no science gaming

1622
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,800
classified and so you know it could be

1623
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,319
an unclassified version

1624
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:28,319
my point overall here is that i don't

1625
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:29,680
know if there is jamming or not

1626
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:31,200
but if there's classified why are they

1627
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,640
talking about it now why is alex

1628
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:33,920
dietrich talking about it

1629
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:36,240
i don't know it's not classified well i

1630
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:37,520
don't know i i

1631
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,790
i'm looking at other people but i'm

1632
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:54,480
coming to my own conclusions here right

1633
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:55,599
but but yeah

1634
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:57,920
yeah how do you know how the handoff

1635
00:51:02,150 --> 00:50:58,960
works from

1636
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:02,160
the radar to the um

1637
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:05,359
to the apple system i don't know that

1638
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:06,160
you know that actually

1639
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:08,319
the only thing that i do know is that if

1640
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,760
it is getting handed off it's more

1641
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:11,200
likely to be a friendly thing than

1642
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:14,079
an an adversary sure like if they if it

1643
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:15,520
was handed off and they knew what it was

1644
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,319
then yes but

1645
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,000
what if it wasn't handed off what if it

1646
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:19,680
was just like a a ball sight

1647
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:21,280
acquisition like so it's looking

1648
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,880
straight ahead which it pretty much is

1649
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:24,400
it's like six degrees off to the to the

1650
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:25,839
left you could have acquired it in the

1651
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:27,520
wild field of view you see this little

1652
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,240
black dot it zooms in on that

1653
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:32,640
uh i under underwood's like done an

1654
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,760
interview i don't think it's actually

1655
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:35,200
fully been released yet but

1656
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:37,359
maybe he'll say more about that but the

1657
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:39,280
thing is like his story has changed

1658
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:41,119
if you go back to the you know this

1659
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:42,800
report uh the

1660
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:44,640
the executive report which was done by

1661
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,960
ata by actually interviewing people

1662
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:48,000
you know there's things in there they're

1663
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:50,240
just completely wrong like he says

1664
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,920
that he thought that the object was

1665
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:53,920
co-altitude or about

1666
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,599
you know up to five thousand feet below

1667
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,359
him whereas in the video it

1668
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,520
clearly shows that it's above him that

1669
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:01,520
it's it's it's like you know

1670
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:02,880
coming where it is like five degrees up

1671
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,960
or something like five six degrees up

1672
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,559
so there's these big discrepancies

1673
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:08,800
between what was reported back then

1674
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,680
and what is being recalled now seventeen

1675
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:12,720
years later

1676
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,400
and so it's very difficult to say this

1677
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,079
is actual data

1678
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:21,030
doesn't agree with fravor on the length

1679
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,240
of the encounter right

1680
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:24,480
right and there's kind of like like

1681
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:25,680
discrepancies

1682
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:29,040
so i'm like my i guess the overall point

1683
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:30,160
that i want to make here

1684
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:32,079
is just that we need we obviously need

1685
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:33,119
more data to know for sure yeah

1686
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,640
definitely in the realm of

1687
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:36,400
talking about eyewitnesses and so i

1688
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:37,680
don't sort of but i

1689
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,720
just want to move on to some of these

1690
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:40,559
other points here because um you know

1691
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:41,359
i'm just sort of

1692
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:43,280
laying out different pieces of evidence

1693
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:45,040
that could be just confirming to your

1694
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,160
hypothesis that's all

1695
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,800
so let me just disprove it well i'm not

1696
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:50,160
i'm not saying i'm disproving i'm just

1697
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:50,960
saying you said you were going to

1698
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:53,040
disprove it no i said i'm going to

1699
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:54,640
attempt to sort of provide some evidence

1700
00:52:58,829 --> 00:52:55,359
that is

1701
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,839
uh puts it lower down in the rank of the

1702
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:00,240
analysis well we can't rewind the tape

1703
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:06,790
keep on going here come on we can go

1704
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:07,920
back and view it though we could

1705
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:08,640
certainly yeah

1706
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:11,760
um so there was uh the stars academy

1707
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:12,720
released a

1708
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,760
a report um they said that uh in this

1709
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:17,280
report uh that they released back in

1710
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:18,640
like when the article came out new york

1711
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,119
times

1712
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:21,119
that's the report i was referring to

1713
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:22,480
yeah yeah there's actually a couple of

1714
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:23,119
reports though

1715
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:25,599
but yeah there's there's this report um

1716
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:26,160
that

1717
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:28,000
they said they were basically in the uh

1718
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:30,319
u.s navy operating area approximately 80

1719
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:31,839
nautical miles that's about 150

1720
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:32,559
kilometer

1721
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,280
circle around here just to get a sense

1722
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:39,119
of like somewhere in here

1723
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:41,680
uh and then i uh looked on uh and found

1724
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,640
this as a map

1725
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:45,119
uh i i couldn't find a really canonical

1726
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:45,680
source

1727
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:48,160
for this i found it through a link on an

1728
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:48,800
article by

1729
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,319
tyler rogoway i've seen stuff like this

1730
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:51,920
that he's posted before but

1731
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:53,839
what i think this is is essentially

1732
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,280
things that are kind of like

1733
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:57,680
restricted uh sea space and restricted

1734
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:58,480
air space

1735
00:54:02,309 --> 00:54:00,800
i think this white is the restricted air

1736
00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:02,319
space because you can see like planes

1737
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:03,680
would be flying in through here

1738
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:06,079
right so i guess my overall point here

1739
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:08,079
is that they're in an area that's in

1740
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,559
a training area right so any thing

1741
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:11,920
that's in the air that shouldn't be

1742
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:12,800
there

1743
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:16,319
talking about like a

1744
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,440
a like a random jet or a friendly jet it

1745
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:20,400
shouldn't be there

1746
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:22,880
uh just full spa so where was it though

1747
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:24,160
i mean it could be on the edge of that

1748
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:25,359
area

1749
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,400
it's not like

1750
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:30,240
this white areas covers pretty much the

1751
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,599
entirety of uh

1752
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:33,440
of the coast i think i've actually flown

1753
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:35,040
in in part of those areas myself well

1754
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:36,319
there's a little thing around the coast

1755
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,599
and there's also little things

1756
00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:39,520
here so how do people get to john wayne

1757
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,799
airport it's uh

1758
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:42,960
there's a little area here like i said

1759
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:44,160
like this is just something for people

1760
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:45,680
to look up for restricted airspace but

1761
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:46,880
my point here mick

1762
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:49,119
is that it's likely that these things

1763
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,319
that were happening were in these

1764
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,000
restricted airspaces yeah i think

1765
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:53,760
probably most likely what we're looking

1766
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:55,839
at is another fighter jet rather than

1767
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,720
another uh commercial thing i i wouldn't

1768
00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:00,240
rule out the commercial things i thought

1769
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:00,880
okay

1770
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:03,359
number one commercial just number two so

1771
00:55:06,789 --> 00:55:04,640
in the all the additional

1772
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,799
uh classified annex you've said a number

1773
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:08,400
of times that the classified index is

1774
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:09,680
the exact same because it comes to the

1775
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:10,640
same conclusions

1776
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,000
there may be additional data with

1777
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,760
accounting classified acts has a lot of

1778
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:16,000
additional data in it but the conclusion

1779
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:17,680
of the classified version of the report

1780
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:19,680
the odni has said is the same

1781
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:21,359
right however i would argue that once

1782
00:55:24,789 --> 00:55:23,280
you have access to that additional data

1783
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,799
you may look at some of these different

1784
00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:26,640
issues and look

1785
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,400
what you may have thought was prosaic

1786
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:30,079
given all the additional

1787
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,280
contexts that you may have changed your

1788
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:33,040
mind on that's that's no you don't know

1789
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,319
what the data is

1790
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:36,799
well mike look i think overall we need

1791
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:37,599
to be uh

1792
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:39,040
not just trying to debunk things but

1793
00:55:42,309 --> 00:55:41,040
asking for more data i think that's what

1794
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:42,319
has to do is ask more videos i would

1795
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:44,079
want more data but you just said that

1796
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:46,160
the data would push you in a certain way

1797
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:48,079
it might actually reinforce the

1798
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:49,119
conclusions of

1799
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:50,880
the public report what i'm saying is

1800
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,400
that there's potentially

1801
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,760
good interesting information in that

1802
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:55,680
classified annex for people i'd love to

1803
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,000
see it

1804
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,880
right but my larger point here is just

1805
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:00,160
that it's likely

1806
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:02,160
uh that whatever all these things are

1807
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:03,520
happening are in these restricted

1808
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,400
airspaces

1809
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:06,400
right i don't know if you accept that or

1810
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:08,720
not oh i think it's like the jets are

1811
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:11,839
flying in restricted airspace yeah

1812
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:13,280
so i'm not sure what your point is

1813
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:15,040
though my point is that if there's uh

1814
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:16,000
some sort of other jet

1815
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:17,920
that is unidentified that they were

1816
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,710
i think the most likely is that it's one

1817
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,400
of their jets and they they just

1818
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:28,720
similarly with the uh the chilean case

1819
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:29,520
you remember that when

1820
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:31,839
you brought it up earlier yeah uh that

1821
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:34,319
was a plane that was on the radar

1822
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:36,319
and they they they called the airport

1823
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:37,599
and said is there a plane on the radar

1824
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,880
and the airport says no

1825
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,480
because they asked them about an area

1826
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:42,079
south of the airport when the plane was

1827
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:43,359
actually north of the airport

1828
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:45,119
so you know it's only good if you know

1829
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:46,720
what you're looking at and because

1830
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:49,599
the aptly system is just a visual thing

1831
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:50,000
uh

1832
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:51,599
you might be looking at something that's

1833
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:52,880
not the same thing as where you think it

1834
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:53,839
is on the radar

1835
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,880
and i think that's probably what

1836
00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:57,200
happened okay my larger point here

1837
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,160
though mick is that

1838
00:57:01,670 --> 00:57:00,079
in looking at all the different uh

1839
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,680
pieces of that events but

1840
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:03,520
going back to what ryan graves says the

1841
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:05,280
sensor radar data link pid

1842
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,960
iff the airplane schedule and the

1843
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:08,559
geographic location data

1844
00:57:12,069 --> 00:57:09,920
that's all the stuff that i just showed

1845
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:12,079
here uh all the radar all the additional

1846
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:15,359
information the uh iff the pids

1847
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:17,920
the uh jamming as well as the geographic

1848
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:19,920
context that there's certain aspects of

1849
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,680
you only looking at the video

1850
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:23,200
in the absence of the broader context

1851
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,880
and you're drawing conclusions in the

1852
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:26,640
absence of the larger context which is

1853
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:28,160
essentially single source reporting

1854
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:30,480
which is what louis louisando told you

1855
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:32,000
is a basically a no-no in the

1856
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:32,799
intelligence

1857
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:35,599
analysis area well i only had the video

1858
00:57:37,990 --> 00:57:36,160
and

1859
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,000
we don't know if there is a firm link

1860
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:39,520
between all that data that you said

1861
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:41,119
and the object that is seen in the video

1862
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,799
in fact my hypothesis is that it

1863
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:44,559
probably isn't because alpha check made

1864
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:47,280
a fairly compelling case that if uh it

1865
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:49,280
was something that was was uh

1866
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:50,960
on the uh sa then it would have been

1867
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:51,920
identified and they would have known

1868
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,880
what they were looking at

1869
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,480
so i think what they're looking at they

1870
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:56,640
didn't realize was one of the things

1871
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:58,240
that was on the sa because they weren't

1872
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:59,920
sure exactly how far away it was and

1873
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,960
what angle

1874
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:03,040
the camera was pointing in uh relative

1875
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,640
to the sa page

1876
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,400
uh so yeah i mean there's lots of other

1877
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:08,480
data and it would be great to have that

1878
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:11,760
but based on what i can see uh that's my

1879
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:12,559
hypothesis

1880
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,839
and really that isn't the primary thing

1881
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,359
that i said about the video the most

1882
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:17,119
important thing i've said is debunking

1883
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:18,559
the claims that people make that it's

1884
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:19,839
moving very fast

1885
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:21,680
amazing technology this you're sort of

1886
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,359
just taking a bit of a

1887
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:25,280
like you're recontextualizing what the

1888
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,880
problem is the problem is

1889
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,720
that there's all sorts of additional

1890
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:30,240
concepts here that you're trying to

1891
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:31,680
eliminate the context and what i'm

1892
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,720
saying here is that you're eliminating

1893
00:58:36,069 --> 00:58:34,079
the context no no it's bad

1894
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:36,079
i'm i'm addressing all that those things

1895
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:37,440
and i've talked about it

1896
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,799
on twitter with alphacheck and i'd be

1897
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:40,480
happy to talk about it some more and you

1898
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,200
know he he

1899
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,200
actually said he i raised some good

1900
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,640
issues and he had to go back and check a

1901
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:46,319
bunch of things and so he went back and

1902
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:48,000
like you know beefed up his argument a

1903
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:49,440
bit more and then we kind of got into a

1904
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:50,960
little bit of an argument on twitter and

1905
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,520
now he

1906
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:54,240
he doesn't seem to want to talk to me

1907
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:54,640
but

1908
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:57,920
you know i i i agree there's more data

1909
00:59:01,270 --> 00:58:59,760
but i think there isn't a firm link

1910
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:01,280
between all that data and what's on the

1911
00:59:03,829 --> 00:59:02,720
video

1912
00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:03,839
all right well i'm going to try to wrap

1913
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:05,359
this up here as we go through these

1914
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,720
other ones here um

1915
00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:08,319
so again i'll go back to your statement

1916
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:09,839
that we are what we're looking at

1917
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:12,240
is the tail end of a jet i think that's

1918
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:13,599
again like you said you're compressed on

1919
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:14,880
tv but when you make statements like

1920
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:16,319
that i think it's irresponsible

1921
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:27,750
yeah i think you're drawing i think the

1922
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:29,839
the lack you sort of sloppiness in the

1923
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:32,160
language you use is bad like you should

1924
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:33,520
be a little bit more

1925
00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:36,000
like hey because you're you're basically

1926
00:59:39,190 --> 00:59:37,599
saying this is a high confidence

1927
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,200
thing that this is basically not in

1928
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:41,040
there it's a cronkite i'm just you know

1929
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:42,400
some guy who's putting forward a bunch

1930
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:44,319
of hypotheses about what's in there and

1931
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:46,160
pointing out things that are wrong and i

1932
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:47,680
think i phrase it in a more definitive

1933
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:49,119
way than people would like

1934
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:51,440
right and i think maybe like part of it

1935
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:53,200
is when when you're introduced you know

1936
00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:54,799
on national television you're introduced

1937
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:55,280
as

1938
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:57,040
an expert right and so i think that's

1939
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,559
where i think that's all

1940
01:00:01,990 --> 01:00:00,240
i mean that's all i i would say well i'm

1941
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,000
giving you my expert opinion

1942
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:04,640
it's sloppy you should like it but i

1943
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:05,839
think it reflects maybe what you

1944
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:07,040
actually think that it is

1945
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,559
just the end of the tale the jet plane

1946
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:10,319
had solved i do think

1947
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,839
that i think that's right by far the

1948
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,440
most likely explanation

1949
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:16,240
right but you're not i agree that it

1950
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:17,599
isn't definitive

1951
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,079
and uh uh you know so you're being

1952
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:22,559
people you're being a bad skeptic

1953
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:24,799
let nick finish let me finish his point

1954
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:26,160
please well no that's that's pretty much

1955
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:27,280
my point that i think

1956
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:29,920
that uh you know i'm putting forward my

1957
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:31,200
best hypothesis and i i

1958
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:33,760
should have be used better language if i

1959
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,799
wanted to be clear but

1960
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:37,200
again this this was this super high

1961
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:37,920
intensity

1962
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:39,680
thing like they've been like calling me

1963
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:41,119
all through the day getting me on this

1964
01:00:44,309 --> 01:00:42,640
thing and then you know i'm there with

1965
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:44,319
with cuomo i can't see anything on

1966
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:45,040
screen

1967
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:46,319
i can't actually see the video that

1968
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:47,680
they're showing on the screen as i'm

1969
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:49,280
just talking to the camera and like

1970
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:49,920
trying to

1971
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:52,000
rattle through my points and yeah if

1972
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,920
there was a bit more relaxed situation

1973
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:55,359
when i was just chatting with him i

1974
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:56,400
could have said yeah i think that's the

1975
01:01:00,789 --> 01:00:59,440
most likely explanation

1976
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,799
i guess my larger point though is that

1977
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:02,000
people look to you like people like

1978
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:03,280
michael schumer i've heard him talk

1979
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:03,760
about

1980
01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:05,440
oh mick west's analysis are pretty

1981
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,880
pretty much conclusive right so when you

1982
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:08,400
use language that it is conclusive when

1983
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:09,440
it actually isn't

1984
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,880
you're sort of putting forth bad

1985
01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:12,480
information that's sort of rippling out

1986
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:13,119
and it's

1987
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:14,640
it's not being a good skeptic which is

1988
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:16,160
all about sort of suspending judgment

1989
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:17,680
well i don't think i mean like really

1990
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:18,880
he's not being a good skeptic there is

1991
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:19,359
more

1992
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:21,200
than me because he's kind of just taking

1993
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:22,799
my words as gospel and

1994
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:25,359
pointing at them and he's he's perhaps

1995
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:26,400
repeating them

1996
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:29,440
you know uncritically but you know who's

1997
01:01:32,710 --> 01:01:30,720
going to believe michael sherman in the

1998
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:32,720
ufo community he's he's a

1999
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,640
guy who doesn't believe in the et

2000
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:35,760
hypothesis or

2001
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:37,599
probably to the same extent as me but

2002
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,680
it's a bit more blunt about saying so

2003
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:41,760
you know most of the time i i explain

2004
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,520
quite carefully that i have this

2005
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:45,440
this ranking system and i always keep

2006
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,720
the et hypothesis

2007
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:49,119
on there but you know when when

2008
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:50,160
pressured or when

2009
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:53,119
space is limited uh i i do agree i

2010
01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:54,160
sometimes make

2011
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:55,039
statements that are a bit more

2012
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,400
definitive than they should be and this

2013
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:57,920
is probably something i should try to

2014
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,599
improve on the future because it leads

2015
01:02:03,190 --> 01:02:01,520
to conversations like this where people

2016
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,200
are just basically arguing over

2017
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:05,760
the way i phrase things right but the

2018
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:06,240
phrasing

2019
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:07,839
actually carries a lot of meaning it's

2020
01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:09,119
the difference between you know what's

2021
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:10,480
really important here is what these

2022
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:12,400
objects are not really what i say about

2023
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:13,039
them

2024
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:15,839
well okay well let me just we're coming

2025
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:16,319
to the end

2026
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:18,000
i think what i've laid out here is the

2027
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:19,359
basic of my arguments a lot of these

2028
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:20,720
other things are kind of recast and so

2029
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:21,359
i'm just going to go

2030
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:23,119
through quickly here some of these other

2031
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:24,480
points um

2032
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:27,599
so the the corbel drops again uh you

2033
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:29,039
know you're saying that it's the worst

2034
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:29,839
ever

2035
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:31,520
that you're here you're saying jeremy

2036
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:33,359
does not have corroborating data now

2037
01:02:36,069 --> 01:02:34,559
again you're saying stuff that's

2038
01:02:37,829 --> 01:02:36,079
basically like how do you know

2039
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:37,839
right what i'm saying that specifically

2040
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,760
is that this data does not corroborate

2041
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:41,359
the video data and the descending sphere

2042
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:43,280
data he has three separate things

2043
01:02:48,069 --> 01:02:45,839
and they're not linked by by time stamps

2044
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:48,079
or by location stamps to being the exact

2045
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,960
same event

2046
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:50,319
corroborating data is when you've got

2047
01:02:54,069 --> 01:02:52,559
one object and you have data on that one

2048
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:54,079
object from multiple

2049
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:56,480
sensors or multiple angles like here

2050
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:57,359
we've got uh

2051
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,200
we've got one shot of a bunch of what

2052
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:01,280
look like light navigation lights in the

2053
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:03,119
sky then we've also got an ir

2054
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:04,400
thing of a sphere descending and then

2055
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:05,599
we've got a radar data with a whole

2056
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:06,319
bunch of things

2057
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:08,400
that is not corroborating because we

2058
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:10,480
can't identify any one object in all

2059
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,079
three things

2060
01:03:15,510 --> 01:03:13,680
well because the the data that we're

2061
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:15,520
getting from corbell is not have like

2062
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,559
good prominence

2063
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:17,920
i think you're right in a sense that we

2064
01:03:21,750 --> 01:03:20,000
can't put a certain amount of evidence

2065
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,760
but i don't i i think also at the same

2066
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:23,119
time it could be cooperating

2067
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:24,799
so for you to eliminate i think you're

2068
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:26,240
again going too far forward

2069
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:28,240
how could it be corroborating it's can

2070
01:03:32,789 --> 01:03:30,319
you identify which object is which

2071
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:32,799
and in all three videos i you know i

2072
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:33,599
don't that's

2073
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:35,359
i haven't seen the data and you haven't

2074
01:03:38,309 --> 01:03:36,720
either so

2075
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:38,319
i'm not going to see what he's putting

2076
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,280
out all three videos

2077
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:43,680
but by not have corroborating data i'm

2078
01:03:47,430 --> 01:03:45,119
referring to this he said

2079
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:47,440
this is corroborating data he said this

2080
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,240
video

2081
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:50,000
is corroborating data i'm saying this is

2082
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:51,599
not corroborating data

2083
01:03:55,029 --> 01:03:53,280
okay all right fair enough so there's

2084
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:55,039
the radar data this data

2085
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:56,640
and then again i'm going back to this

2086
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:58,480
which is that well i don't know exactly

2087
01:04:00,789 --> 01:03:59,839
where they're at but it's entirely

2088
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:00,799
possible

2089
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:03,359
that these what seem to be just mundane

2090
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:04,640
drones or planes

2091
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:05,760
they could actually be in restricted

2092
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:07,520
airspace which actually changes in the

2093
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:08,160
blue

2094
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,920
area that you pointed out earlier which

2095
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:11,280
is the approach path

2096
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:13,359
uh for southern california i showed that

2097
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:14,720
in my video

2098
01:04:20,950 --> 01:04:18,720
the omaha specifically uh is directly

2099
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,960
the direction on the the deck log the

2100
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,400
the latitude and longitude is directly

2101
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:23,839
under the flight path of about

2102
01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:25,599
maybe 10 planes to go almost directly

2103
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:27,680
overhead at around that time

2104
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:29,680
okay i didn't i didn't i missed that so

2105
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,880
that's you know i think

2106
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:32,640
i don't know if there's gps coordinated

2107
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:34,240
uh versions of these maps but that would

2108
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:35,200
be good to have just to

2109
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:36,799
you know have people as we're getting

2110
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:39,039
relayed

2111
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:40,480
just to be able to sort of see like what

2112
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:42,160
the larger context again again i'm going

2113
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:43,280
back to the context

2114
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:44,559
because it's really important as to

2115
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:46,319
where they're at here as to whether or

2116
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:48,160
not they could be sort of explained away

2117
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:49,200
as just drones

2118
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:50,240
because even if they're drones they

2119
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:51,680
shouldn't be there if it's restricted so

2120
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:52,400
yeah that would be

2121
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:55,760
pretty significant

2122
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:57,520
just pop in real quick we probably

2123
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:59,039
should make this our closing arguments

2124
01:05:03,109 --> 01:05:00,960
and then uh and then we'll get

2125
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:03,119
we'll get i guess to the end of this yep

2126
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:04,079
i'll do a couple

2127
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:06,079
here here again it's just a thing where

2128
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:08,160
you say new footage it's just bokeh not

2129
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:09,359
a pyramid again

2130
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:12,799
by that one that's fine okay again

2131
01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:14,640
you're declaring something that there

2132
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:16,400
may be additional data in context that

2133
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:17,200
we don't know

2134
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:19,359
so again i think you you know maybe put

2135
01:05:23,029 --> 01:05:20,559
money on that one

2136
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:23,039
okay fair enough um the go fast not

2137
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:24,640
being go okay this is uh we'll

2138
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:25,920
probably i don't have time to get into

2139
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:27,839
the uh the last thing here of the

2140
01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:29,119
preliminary analysis there's a tweet

2141
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:30,240
thread that i did with you

2142
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:31,440
that was sort of going back and forth

2143
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:32,960
and like i said people can look up the

2144
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:34,559
the slides and there's a whole annex

2145
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:36,319
but this just go fast let's make this

2146
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:38,000
the last one okay so

2147
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:41,119
mick west um so you said on the

2148
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:42,720
unidentified celebrity review on june

2149
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:45,599
21st you said this isn't my opinion

2150
01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:47,920
this is me saying i'm this isn't me

2151
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:49,520
saying i'm an expert to go fast video is

2152
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:50,880
going slow and you should trust everyone

2153
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:51,359
else

2154
01:05:54,789 --> 01:05:53,680
it's saying this is the math these are

2155
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,799
the numbers on the screen

2156
01:05:57,910 --> 01:05:56,160
these are the angles you can do it

2157
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:57,920
yourself or you can find a high spoiler

2158
01:06:00,950 --> 01:05:58,240
to

2159
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:00,960
verify it so what you're saying is that

2160
01:06:04,309 --> 01:06:02,559
anybody can just look at the numbers and

2161
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:04,319
figure out the trigonometry and that

2162
01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:05,200
what they'll find

2163
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:06,799
is that it's not going fast it's not

2164
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,640
mundane it's nothing special

2165
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,799
right assuming the numbers are correct

2166
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:12,079
and some people have raised the issue

2167
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:13,520
that they might not be correct but they

2168
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:15,200
haven't really given very good

2169
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,799
uh evidence for why they wouldn't be

2170
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:18,240
correct and they seem pretty consistent

2171
01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,920
throughout the video to me

2172
01:06:23,349 --> 01:06:21,680
so the last question that i'll ask you

2173
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:23,359
here is do you remember what lu elizondo

2174
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:25,839
told you about this when you asked him

2175
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:29,680
no okay what he said uh

2176
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:32,400
was that they actually had radar on this

2177
01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:33,680
and that they were able to discern that

2178
01:06:37,589 --> 01:06:35,359
it was an object that was indeed moving

2179
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,599
at a very fast speed uh that goes above

2180
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:39,039
and beyond what you had with just the

2181
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,680
video

2182
01:06:42,789 --> 01:06:41,280
so there's actually radar returns and

2183
01:06:44,829 --> 01:06:42,799
also he says wait no

2184
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:44,839
you just said there is a radar returns

2185
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:46,319
yeah lose certain radar returns he

2186
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:47,760
doesn't mean that there are

2187
01:06:50,950 --> 01:06:50,400
uh he says um let's see let me see what

2188
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:50,960
exactly

2189
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,480
i'm saying he might be wrong he may be

2190
01:06:54,950 --> 01:06:54,160
misremembering or he's characterizing

2191
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:54,960
the situation he

2192
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,799
okay well first i'm just gonna trust

2193
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:58,240
that he was right and not just say that

2194
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:59,280
he was wrong because that's a weak

2195
01:07:02,549 --> 01:07:00,240
argument okay

2196
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,559
um just to say all of you that's just

2197
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:04,319
like a that's a pop out

2198
01:07:07,349 --> 01:07:06,799
but is it automatically trusting it also

2199
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:07,359
a week

2200
01:07:11,829 --> 01:07:10,640
weeks i think it's just like nick kind

2201
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:11,839
of takes a position of anything that

2202
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:13,440
disagrees with his like core hypothesis

2203
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:14,480
it's just like oh well it's just

2204
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:16,640
discounted let's just like say yeah

2205
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:18,799
secrets

2206
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:21,760
like what you're doing and that's what

2207
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:23,200
lou is doing but you know he's not

2208
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:24,720
producing any evidence so

2209
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:27,119
we just got to go by lou's word and you

2210
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:28,480
know frankly i i

2211
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:30,799
i think that he mischaracterizes things

2212
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:31,920
a lot of the time

2213
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,520
but i'm not for me personally i'm not

2214
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:35,280
making a decision on this you are on the

2215
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:36,720
record saying that this is just math

2216
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:38,079
that you could just do the trigonometry

2217
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:39,440
and you'll be able to discover

2218
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:40,880
what i'm saying again and again and

2219
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:42,559
again mick is that in this cot in this

2220
01:07:45,430 --> 01:07:44,160
situation there's additional context

2221
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:45,440
that you don't have access to it's

2222
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:46,960
secret data that other people have

2223
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:47,440
looked at

2224
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:49,920
and what he's saying and he says again

2225
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:52,000
and again according to the radar data

2226
01:07:55,349 --> 01:07:53,760
not just what you see in the camera that

2227
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:55,359
the performance characteristics on this

2228
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:56,079
object of the go

2229
01:08:01,750 --> 01:07:59,280
fast that and also uh pointing out

2230
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:01,760
that there was some very compelling um

2231
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:02,960
long pause

2232
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:04,799
signatures associated with that video i

2233
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:05,680
don't know if that means there was

2234
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:07,359
active jamming or anything else

2235
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:09,039
but he's basically saying look we have

2236
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:10,559
additional data that's not

2237
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:12,400
like open that or we're making this

2238
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:13,920
decision on the go fast

2239
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:15,760
and so for you to only look at the go

2240
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:17,759
fast video and do all this trigonometry

2241
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:19,199
i think it's like it goes above them

2242
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:20,880
that's what he did with uh

2243
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:23,199
like the video when he showed it on the

2244
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,159
the unidentified

2245
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:26,400
show they were showing it on screen and

2246
01:08:29,669 --> 01:08:28,159
they had two experts come in and go look

2247
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:29,679
at that thing it's moving really fast

2248
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:30,480
and yeah

2249
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:31,679
talk about moving two-thirds the speed

2250
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,799
of sound and they didn't say anything

2251
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:34,400
about secret data backing that up they

2252
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,759
just said that's what you see on the

2253
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:37,440
video so i'm claiming the video does not

2254
01:08:39,829 --> 01:08:38,000
actually show

2255
01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:39,839
that maybe there's some extra

2256
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:41,520
information like lewis claiming there's

2257
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,960
extra information but you know if you

2258
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:44,400
can't bring it then it doesn't really

2259
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:45,600
mean that much

2260
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:47,600
nick just like let me just finish this

2261
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,880
one last point because

2262
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:50,400
nick you said yourself when you're on

2263
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:52,239
national tv you said

2264
01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:53,920
something that was maybe something you

2265
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:55,440
should know that this is something that

2266
01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:56,719
you didn't know for sure

2267
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,239
i think the conceits of something like

2268
01:09:00,950 --> 01:09:00,480
to the scars academy the identified tv

2269
01:09:03,030 --> 01:09:00,960
show

2270
01:09:04,789 --> 01:09:03,040
is not a good standard to base upon what

2271
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,799
the standard of evidence are

2272
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,400
when we look at something like there's

2273
01:09:08,870 --> 01:09:07,920
an intelligence analysis and other

2274
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,880
things that are going on

2275
01:09:12,390 --> 01:09:10,960
so you have the same criticism of louis

2276
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:12,400
alexander then for saying this on

2277
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,600
national tv

2278
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:15,199
it's the con it's a criticism of the

2279
01:09:17,910 --> 01:09:16,480
conceit of what they were trying to do

2280
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:17,920
to raise awareness and they had to use

2281
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:18,239
the

2282
01:09:25,349 --> 01:09:25,040
make stuff up on tv but i'm not allowed

2283
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:25,359
to

2284
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:30,080
you were seen as somebody who's like a

2285
01:09:40,149 --> 01:09:37,749
the authority i am when i listen to

2286
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:40,159
louis alzando he is extremely careful in

2287
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:41,600
how he phrases things

2288
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:43,759
and i think because you don't have a

2289
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:45,120
training in science and so there's a

2290
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:46,560
certain way in that this may be new to

2291
01:09:49,349 --> 01:09:47,440
you for how

2292
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:49,359
scientists think about these things but

2293
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:50,880
scientists actually are very humble in

2294
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:52,159
terms of what they know and they don't

2295
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,640
know

2296
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:54,239
and there's certain lack of episodic

2297
01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:55,920
humility meaning you say things above

2298
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:57,440
and beyond what you have knowledge of

2299
01:10:03,189 --> 01:09:59,280
and that's like that goes up that's bad

2300
01:10:05,830 --> 01:10:03,199
it's just

2301
01:10:07,830 --> 01:10:05,840
uh if you take a long conversation with

2302
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:07,840
me i like i said i say things uh on

2303
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:08,880
national tv and

2304
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,880
in twitter sometimes that uh are a bit

2305
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:12,480
too definitive i would agree with you

2306
01:10:17,189 --> 01:10:14,560
with with that but you know i don't

2307
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:17,199
think it's that big of a deal really

2308
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:20,480
uh all right okay real quick uh the

2309
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:23,120
i just want to say just a compliment to

2310
01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:25,120
this conversation the new york post just

2311
01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:26,000
said

2312
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:29,760
this is what the next three

2313
01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:32,000
hours uh special on discovery channel

2314
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:32,880
should be

2315
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:34,560
and i couldn't agree with it more like

2316
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:36,880
this is how conversations happen

2317
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,760
and i guess we'll end with this ken that

2318
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:41,600
was amazing

2319
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:43,040
i love that you brought all of these

2320
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:44,640
slides mick

2321
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:47,360
thank you for your patience and your um

2322
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:49,040
your ability to take this information

2323
01:10:52,870 --> 01:10:50,080
and criticism

2324
01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:52,880
and even agree with it i mean i think

2325
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,600
ken

2326
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,679
you're underlying from what i gather

2327
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,280
here in the last hour

2328
01:11:02,390 --> 01:10:59,760
it's the messaging sometimes on a

2329
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:02,400
national platform that that comes out

2330
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:05,679
and and it's it it's

2331
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:07,440
it's what i'd say the the thing that i

2332
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,880
see again and again that mick does is he

2333
01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:10,000
tries to reduce things down to a

2334
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,679
component part when by while ignoring

2335
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:12,800
the larger context

2336
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:14,880
and he's basing judgments upon like a

2337
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:16,080
like there's something that called

2338
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:17,920
myriology which is like the whole part

2339
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:18,560
structure

2340
01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:19,679
and so he's taking something that's a

2341
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:21,040
reductive part in the drawing of art or

2342
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:22,640
conclusion but he can't actually do that

2343
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:23,760
because he doesn't have full access to

2344
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:24,320
the data

2345
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:25,280
and he's maybe there are actually

2346
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:26,640
reductive parts in this argument when

2347
01:11:30,070 --> 01:11:28,239
people make specific arguments about the

2348
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:30,080
video that is a part that can be taken

2349
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:31,120
in isolation

2350
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:32,480
and you don't have to draw wider

2351
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:34,000
conclusions from it but you can analyze

2352
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:35,360
that particular part

2353
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:37,600
and say you know it's it that glow is

2354
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:39,440
just it's just an artifact of the camera

2355
01:11:42,390 --> 01:11:40,960
or the rotation it's just an artifact

2356
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:42,400
with a camera it's not going fast these

2357
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:44,159
are reductive parts that are fine to

2358
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:44,640
look at

2359
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:46,640
in themselves i think your problem is

2360
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:48,480
more with my broader conclusions that

2361
01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:49,360
you think i need to

2362
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:51,760
draw you you have shown yourself as i've

2363
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:53,280
demonstrated here that you make

2364
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:55,120
statements that you can't back up

2365
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:56,719
that you you're drawing knowledge that

2366
01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:58,400
you can't say that this is definitely

2367
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,920
you said on national tv i'd be happy to

2368
01:12:01,990 --> 01:12:01,440
back up any of the statements that i

2369
01:12:04,470 --> 01:12:02,000
have made

2370
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:04,480
and uh or retract any statements as i

2371
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:05,920
have done already like when

2372
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:07,600
they're being too declarative and that's

2373
01:12:11,669 --> 01:12:09,600
fair he has done that declarative

2374
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:11,679
to be fair to make he has done that like

2375
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,960
he has and and

2376
01:12:16,709 --> 01:12:14,880
and he has taken your criticism today

2377
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:16,719
and said you know what kent you're right

2378
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:18,960
um maybe i was too definitive on certain

2379
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:20,640
tweets or certain things that i said on

2380
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:22,560
cnn and to be fair to nick to defend him

2381
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:24,960
a little bit on a cnn hit

2382
01:12:28,390 --> 01:12:27,120
that's sometimes nerve-wracking it's

2383
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:28,400
super super fast

2384
01:12:32,070 --> 01:12:30,239
and i can understand getting nervous in

2385
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:32,080
an instant like that especially if you

2386
01:12:36,870 --> 01:12:33,120
can't see

2387
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:36,880
footage that they're popping up like

2388
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,800
that's you're kind of trusting a network

2389
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:40,800
news to represent you in the right way

2390
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:41,920
and vice versa

2391
01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:43,920
and so i can understand how maybe he

2392
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:45,520
stumbled upon his words maybe didn't

2393
01:12:48,149 --> 01:12:46,800
word things the right way

2394
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:48,159
and like he said himself it's something

2395
01:12:51,590 --> 01:12:50,159
he's got to work on like it's something

2396
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:51,600
he's going to work on he's going to work

2397
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:52,880
on it and

2398
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:55,600
and look here's the thing kent i think

2399
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:57,760
and i think you think and i'm maybe even

2400
01:13:01,030 --> 01:12:59,199
i'm not going to speak for michael

2401
01:13:02,470 --> 01:13:01,040
but i think in two or three years when

2402
01:13:04,149 --> 01:13:02,480
there's more data

2403
01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:04,159
i mean mika said himself the thing that

2404
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:05,920
would convince him is if

2405
01:13:09,669 --> 01:13:07,760
let's say we had two angles camera

2406
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:09,679
angles of that tic tac video

2407
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:11,600
he's gonna have a much more difficult

2408
01:13:15,189 --> 01:13:12,960
time you know

2409
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:15,199
putting these hypotheses in his occam

2410
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,480
razors list

2411
01:13:19,910 --> 01:13:18,320
you know i think you're gonna start

2412
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:19,920
seeing maybe that i don't know i don't

2413
01:13:22,550 --> 01:13:21,760
want to call it alien because nobody's

2414
01:13:27,990 --> 01:13:22,560
doing that

2415
01:13:32,310 --> 01:13:30,870
unknown box maybe moves up his list a

2416
01:13:35,030 --> 01:13:32,320
little more um

2417
01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:35,040
and he said that you know and so that's

2418
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:35,679
why i

2419
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:39,920
i like to bring mick on because he

2420
01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:42,640
in a hundred and fifty tweets or or

2421
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:45,760
limited tweet or 260 whatever it is

2422
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:47,440
context gets lost

2423
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:49,360
meaning gets lost and sometimes you

2424
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:51,600
write something and you think it sounds

2425
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:53,360
funny in your head but everybody takes

2426
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:54,560
it as an insult

2427
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:57,520
and i know mick like i this guy is a

2428
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:58,080
cheeky

2429
01:14:01,910 --> 01:14:00,960
dry sense of humor i mean he's a few

2430
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:01,920
tweets

2431
01:14:07,669 --> 01:14:05,679
back on stuff and

2432
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,679
and look if it's something that he's

2433
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:09,040
admit and it's something that he's

2434
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:10,080
trying to work on

2435
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:13,199
i say that's a win on you kent i

2436
01:14:17,350 --> 01:14:15,679
i think you know like you got him to to

2437
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:17,360
say that and i feel like he said it in

2438
01:14:20,470 --> 01:14:18,960
other platforms but again

2439
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:20,480
like every time mick you come here and

2440
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:22,320
we have a conversation i feel like i'm

2441
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:24,640
more and more blown away by just your

2442
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:27,199
your your cool dude like and you're just

2443
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:28,560
trying to get the answers

2444
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:31,360
and you're basing your hypotheses off of

2445
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:32,159
what's there

2446
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:34,640
what's on the table and not what's not

2447
01:14:37,750 --> 01:14:36,239
on the table not what people are saying

2448
01:14:39,510 --> 01:14:37,760
and i agree he kind of

2449
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,520
sometimes i think you're skipping the

2450
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:42,239
totality of what's happening here

2451
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:44,800
there's a really big picture and because

2452
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:46,000
you don't have the

2453
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,840
the data points for the bigger picture

2454
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:49,440
you're just going off of the data points

2455
01:14:52,709 --> 01:14:50,480
you have

2456
01:14:54,070 --> 01:14:52,719
you you you're kind of throwing that out

2457
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:54,080
of the way and i understand why you're

2458
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:55,040
doing that

2459
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:57,360
um but again i i think this is a healthy

2460
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:58,239
conversation

2461
01:15:02,070 --> 01:15:00,159
i would love to maybe do a part two of

2462
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:02,080
this if you guys are up for it

2463
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:03,520
um you know we could plan that in the

2464
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:06,400
next few weeks or so um

2465
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:08,640
please put a list together put put i was

2466
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,950
real quick ken i just i just wanted to

2467
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:24,480
say one thing again and and i wanted to

2468
01:15:27,030 --> 01:15:25,760
appreciate both of you for

2469
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:27,040
for coming on here and doing this i know

2470
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:28,560
it's it's a challenging thing to do and

2471
01:15:32,229 --> 01:15:29,040
it takes

2472
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:32,239
guts uh and you know we're in front of a

2473
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:33,199
decent amount of people a lot more

2474
01:15:36,870 --> 01:15:34,480
people are going to watch this later but

2475
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,880
i did want to say um you know i

2476
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:38,320
definitely think

2477
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:40,560
mick one of the things that is the

2478
01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:41,679
biggest challenge

2479
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:44,719
from people who read your tweets

2480
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,719
is that they really feel like and i

2481
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,560
think ken did a good job of just

2482
01:15:51,910 --> 01:15:50,239
pointing out this one particular point

2483
01:15:52,630 --> 01:15:51,920
is that you can be very definitive and

2484
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:52,640
sometimes

2485
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:54,880
you separate your own opinion from your

2486
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:56,640
debunking and i think that's where

2487
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:58,159
people are just like

2488
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,760
so far they throw their hands up they go

2489
01:16:02,630 --> 01:16:01,199
how can you be a debunker and

2490
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:02,640
simultaneously have an opinion as a

2491
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:03,840
human being and i and

2492
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:05,760
that's where i think that's where some

2493
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:08,400
of the problems uh it's an issue i i

2494
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:11,679
i i just don't sometimes it you can't

2495
01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:13,440
have the space of putting in like the i

2496
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:14,239
think or

2497
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:15,840
almost certainly let's be honest

2498
01:16:19,910 --> 01:16:17,920
sometimes you just can't help yourself

2499
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:19,920
i think that's it i think you're

2500
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:26,950
you're gonna help yourself i wanna send

2501
01:16:30,950 --> 01:16:29,120
a kudos and thank you to mick because

2502
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,960
a lot of the stuff that i was showing

2503
01:16:33,270 --> 01:16:32,320
was because of the stuff that you were

2504
01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:33,280
putting out that other people were

2505
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:34,320
responding to

2506
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:36,640
so there's a sort of a dialectic process

2507
01:16:38,790 --> 01:16:37,920
of believing truths and avoiding

2508
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:38,800
falsehoods

2509
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:40,880
so there's a a healthy function of those

2510
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:42,239
two and then when it's healthy

2511
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:43,440
because when you have open-minded

2512
01:16:45,669 --> 01:16:44,800
collaboration between those two when

2513
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,679
it's toxic

2514
01:16:49,350 --> 01:16:47,520
is when you have closed-mindedness where

2515
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:49,360
it's sort of like not listening

2516
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,719
and then so some of my twitter

2517
01:16:52,950 --> 01:16:51,920
interactions where it's trying to engage

2518
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:52,960
with this there's a point where just

2519
01:16:55,590 --> 01:16:53,600
sort of like

2520
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:55,600
the the door is shut and you can't get

2521
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,880
through because it's sort of like

2522
01:16:59,350 --> 01:16:58,480
you know there's a larger point that's

2523
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:59,360
there because there's like these

2524
01:17:02,149 --> 01:17:00,400
dogmatic statements

2525
01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:02,159
but overall i wouldn't have done this

2526
01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:03,440
presentation had i

2527
01:17:08,390 --> 01:17:06,640
not been so pissed off and angry about

2528
01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:08,400
i thought you were wrong about right so

2529
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:10,159
that that sort of catalyzed my own

2530
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:11,840
process to be able to like go through

2531
01:17:15,430 --> 01:17:13,520
and just basically document out

2532
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:15,440
okay here's what i think nick is doing

2533
01:17:17,430 --> 01:17:17,040
and i tried to try to do the best i

2534
01:17:19,189 --> 01:17:17,440
could

2535
01:17:20,709 --> 01:17:19,199
to represent what your arguments were

2536
01:17:21,350 --> 01:17:20,719
the best as i could and the best that i

2537
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:21,360
understood

2538
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:22,960
and right oh i think that they tried

2539
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:24,640
they start to break down and hopefully

2540
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:25,520
you know this

2541
01:17:29,430 --> 01:17:27,600
all these slides are on slideshare uh

2542
01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:29,440
under my name can't buy and i'll tweet

2543
01:17:31,270 --> 01:17:30,080
it out as well

2544
01:17:33,189 --> 01:17:31,280
so people can kind of there's a whole

2545
01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:33,199
appendix of lots of other things from

2546
01:17:36,550 --> 01:17:34,880
you know uh additional things from the

2547
01:17:37,590 --> 01:17:36,560
same encyclopedia philosophy and the

2548
01:17:39,270 --> 01:17:37,600
ethical skeptic and

2549
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:39,280
some other sort of resources because i

2550
01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:40,960
think as a community we need to have

2551
01:17:43,430 --> 01:17:41,760
this sort of like

2552
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,440
we need this healthy dialectic between

2553
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:45,120
like more people who are kind of

2554
01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:47,520
uh providing these provocations like

2555
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:48,239
mick has done

2556
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:50,719
so well uh that has really catalyzed the

2557
01:17:53,430 --> 01:17:51,760
generation of

2558
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:53,440
other people responding that's actually

2559
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:55,040
revealed quite a lot of knowledge about

2560
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:55,360
this

2561
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,960
function but i think i'd caution around

2562
01:18:02,390 --> 01:18:00,880
that sort of lack of epistemic humility

2563
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:02,400
you know going too far about what you

2564
01:18:04,630 --> 01:18:04,080
actually know and sort of being a bad

2565
01:18:07,669 --> 01:18:04,640
skeptic

2566
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:07,679
being willing to

2567
01:18:11,669 --> 01:18:10,480
suspend your judgment uh of not and

2568
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:11,679
there's three

2569
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:14,400
doxxed beliefs of belief disbelief and

2570
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:15,760
then there's like sort of like i don't

2571
01:18:18,149 --> 01:18:17,440
know i'm just gonna suspend making a

2572
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:18,159
decision

2573
01:18:22,070 --> 01:18:19,920
and i think sometimes by making a

2574
01:18:24,070 --> 01:18:22,080
decision it sort of creates these

2575
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:24,080
you know ways in which that people have

2576
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:26,000
these uh twitter wars and battles

2577
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:27,760
uh so i would just sort of encourage

2578
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:30,560
more open-mindedness more collaboration

2579
01:18:33,590 --> 01:18:32,080
for people who actually you know are

2580
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:33,600
really challenging like hey but what

2581
01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:34,800
about this what about this

2582
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,920
and the people who have the will to

2583
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:37,440
believe being like no but i really think

2584
01:18:39,430 --> 01:18:37,840
it's this

2585
01:18:41,030 --> 01:18:39,440
and i think it's between those two

2586
01:18:42,229 --> 01:18:41,040
together working together where the real

2587
01:18:43,830 --> 01:18:42,239
knowledge is being produced

2588
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,840
sure well i'm always happy to have

2589
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:45,600
conversations with people and to listen

2590
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:47,760
to their ideas and uh have my ideas

2591
01:18:51,669 --> 01:18:48,719
challenged and

2592
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:51,679
uh and defend my own ideas if uh if

2593
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:53,120
that's what's needed

2594
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:55,520
and i apologize to people if they if i

2595
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:57,040
come across for

2596
01:19:03,270 --> 01:19:00,239
seem too definitive sometimes and i

2597
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:03,280
i keep the 80 hypothesis on the table i

2598
01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:05,120
keep the advanced technology hypothesis

2599
01:19:07,830 --> 01:19:06,080
on the table

2600
01:19:10,229 --> 01:19:07,840
i keep all kinds of hypotheses on the

2601
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:10,239
table and i probably have biases but i

2602
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:11,840
think that's kind of born from my long

2603
01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:13,600
experience of investigating lots of

2604
01:19:15,510 --> 01:19:14,320
cases

2605
01:19:17,830 --> 01:19:15,520
and they're not turning out to be

2606
01:19:20,229 --> 01:19:17,840
anything interesting uh but you know i

2607
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:20,239
i'd love to have more data like like it

2608
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:21,840
would be good to have you know two

2609
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:23,440
angles but right now we've got one angle

2610
01:19:27,030 --> 01:19:24,320
and we've got

2611
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:27,040
some stuff let's uh hinted about and

2612
01:19:30,630 --> 01:19:28,320
that really isn't enough to make

2613
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:30,640
uh conclusions other than what we can

2614
01:19:33,750 --> 01:19:31,760
conclude with

2615
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:33,760
the visible data so bring on more data

2616
01:19:39,189 --> 01:19:35,360
and i shall try to be

2617
01:19:41,189 --> 01:19:39,199
uh more equivocable or whatever when uh

2618
01:19:43,110 --> 01:19:41,199
when i say things i will equivocate

2619
01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:43,120
equitable yeah i uh

2620
01:19:46,630 --> 01:19:44,960
i love you make west i'm not gonna lie

2621
01:19:48,790 --> 01:19:46,640
um i want to

2622
01:19:49,750 --> 01:19:48,800
just share we we did put a poll and i

2623
01:19:51,669 --> 01:19:49,760
put a poll up

2624
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,679
in the chat says who's winning so far

2625
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:53,040
mick or kent and then i wrote

2626
01:19:56,709 --> 01:19:55,920
team kent or team mick uh it was pretty

2627
01:20:00,630 --> 01:19:56,719
damn close

2628
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:00,640
it was 55 percent uh in favor of can't

2629
01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:03,520
buy so man this was almost straight down

2630
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:04,640
the middle

2631
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:06,880
um there was a hundred and eighty six

2632
01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:07,840
votes

2633
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:10,239
don't look so sad mick don't look so sad

2634
01:20:12,790 --> 01:20:11,040
it's fine that's

2635
01:20:14,470 --> 01:20:12,800
good i mean it's okay maybe you'll win

2636
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:14,480
the next one that's great because this

2637
01:20:19,430 --> 01:20:16,800
is a pro ufo crowd really right

2638
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,440
exactly no i mean look man that's why

2639
01:20:23,669 --> 01:20:21,520
i'm trying to bring a little bit of

2640
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:23,679
levity a little bit of clearer thinking

2641
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:25,199
a little bit more um

2642
01:20:28,310 --> 01:20:27,440
questioning your own belief systems with

2643
01:20:30,149 --> 01:20:28,320
this show

2644
01:20:32,070 --> 01:20:30,159
that's the whole point of it so this

2645
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:32,080
discussion i i think did a lot

2646
01:20:36,629 --> 01:20:35,120
for that so kent mick thank you so much

2647
01:20:39,990 --> 01:20:36,639
real quick before you go

2648
01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:40,000
ken is there anything that maybe

2649
01:20:43,510 --> 01:20:41,600
changed your thought process on mick

2650
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:43,520
west do you like mick west a little more

2651
01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:44,800
after this conversation

2652
01:20:47,990 --> 01:20:46,719
are you a little less pissed off i i

2653
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:48,000
gotta give it to nick for

2654
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:49,920
for sort of uh taking my points and

2655
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:51,040
really hearing me um

2656
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:52,560
like i said i've sort of tried to

2657
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:53,760
communicate some of these things on

2658
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:54,960
twitter and it's

2659
01:20:57,990 --> 01:20:56,080
not the best medium to have these

2660
01:21:00,070 --> 01:20:58,000
nuanced type of conversations and so

2661
01:21:01,430 --> 01:21:00,080
uh i'm glad that and there's a lot of

2662
01:21:03,030 --> 01:21:01,440
points that i was making that i actually

2663
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:03,040
don't have the data to be able to

2664
01:21:06,950 --> 01:21:05,040
for sure on my side to say no for sure i

2665
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:06,960
know either because i don't know either

2666
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:08,400
it's just more of a preponderance of all

2667
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:10,320
these things and um yeah i

2668
01:21:13,990 --> 01:21:12,719
you know the the the larger larger point

2669
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:14,000
is like just the larger contextual

2670
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:15,600
information that's what i and that's why

2671
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:17,199
i was asking mick around do you remember

2672
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:18,560
what blue told you about this

2673
01:21:21,590 --> 01:21:20,239
specific thing because it's basically

2674
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:21,600
like i wanted to really understand

2675
01:21:23,830 --> 01:21:22,800
whether or not nick was really

2676
01:21:25,270 --> 01:21:23,840
internalizing

2677
01:21:26,790 --> 01:21:25,280
some of the ways in which that you know

2678
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:26,800
sometimes i hear mick say well lou

2679
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:28,239
didn't respond to this but actually if

2680
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,360
you go back and listen

2681
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:30,880
i think lou actually is responding by

2682
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:32,159
saying look we have more contacts that

2683
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:33,040
you don't have

2684
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:35,679
and we came here he just says that about

2685
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:36,560
everything

2686
01:21:44,070 --> 01:21:39,840
well let's not get let's not get into

2687
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:46,149
in the chat asking for an exit poll and

2688
01:21:48,550 --> 01:21:47,440
i think some people may have changed

2689
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:48,560
their their position

2690
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:50,639
okay we'll get an exit poll i'll get it

2691
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:52,560
for the second hour mick west we'll do

2692
01:21:55,750 --> 01:21:53,840
this scientifically

2693
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:55,760
um is there anything is there is there

2694
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,440
any good points maybe that you thought

2695
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:59,040
that kept brought up make before you get

2696
01:22:01,510 --> 01:21:59,840
out of here

2697
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:01,520
uh well i mean like what i've already

2698
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,360
said really is that yeah it's true i'm

2699
01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:05,120
too definitive sometimes and it doesn't

2700
01:22:08,470 --> 01:22:06,560
it's not good communication

2701
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:08,480
you know he says it's it's sloppy but

2702
01:22:11,910 --> 01:22:10,400
you know i i don't like i said i i'm not

2703
01:22:13,350 --> 01:22:11,920
well to cronkite i'm not like

2704
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:13,360
uh you know holding the nation's

2705
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:14,960
attention in the palm of my hand it's

2706
01:22:17,590 --> 01:22:16,320
right i've got like a few thousand

2707
01:22:19,110 --> 01:22:17,600
followers on twitter

2708
01:22:21,110 --> 01:22:19,120
right and you also only got you don't

2709
01:22:21,990 --> 01:22:21,120
have your own nationwide television show

2710
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,000
on on

2711
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:24,239
youtube just to push back on that a

2712
01:22:27,030 --> 01:22:25,920
little bit you are being on cnn you're

2713
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:27,040
on new york times

2714
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:28,880
you know your voice excited as an expert

2715
01:22:32,790 --> 01:22:30,560
yeah and i guess you're not just

2716
01:22:34,149 --> 01:22:32,800
like you know your level of party you're

2717
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:34,159
in the new york times i mean you're in

2718
01:22:37,110 --> 01:22:35,520
the some of the biggest

2719
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:37,120
newspapers and i think what i'm saying

2720
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:38,639
is that there's a good responsibility

2721
01:22:41,110 --> 01:22:39,040
there

2722
01:22:42,629 --> 01:22:41,120
when you get to that level to actually

2723
01:22:43,510 --> 01:22:42,639
go with it what the data are actually

2724
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:43,520
saying because what you're saying

2725
01:22:45,510 --> 01:22:44,800
sometimes is going above and beyond the

2726
01:22:46,870 --> 01:22:45,520
computers

2727
01:22:49,430 --> 01:22:46,880
if if someone disagrees with what i've

2728
01:22:49,750 --> 01:22:49,440
said uh just ask me and i will clarify

2729
01:22:52,310 --> 01:22:49,760
or

2730
01:22:52,790 --> 01:22:52,320
back it up excellent all right gentlemen

2731
01:22:55,030 --> 01:22:52,800
well

2732
01:22:56,310 --> 01:22:55,040
seriously this was awesome i cannot tell

2733
01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:56,320
you how many people in the chat were

2734
01:22:58,870 --> 01:22:58,480
enjoying this and interacting the entire

2735
01:23:00,790 --> 01:22:58,880
hour

2736
01:23:02,950 --> 01:23:00,800
in 20 minutes so we got stephen

2737
01:23:04,550 --> 01:23:02,960
greenstreet on standby also with ufo

2738
01:23:06,950 --> 01:23:04,560
jane and rather's i'm sure

2739
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:06,960
got some hot takes on this conversation

2740
01:23:10,950 --> 01:23:08,800
uh probably

2741
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:10,960
maybe we'll get him to do the exit poll

2742
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:12,320
um all right you guys

2743
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:14,080
we'll see you next time i appreciate you

2744
01:23:17,430 --> 01:23:15,360
stopping by real quick

2745
01:23:19,590 --> 01:23:17,440
uh where can people find your stuff kent

2746
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:19,600
oh i'm not on twitter i can't buy

2747
01:23:24,870 --> 01:23:21,840
i have like one uap video on youtube uh

2748
01:23:26,550 --> 01:23:24,880
and i have a a podcast on vr i look at a

2749
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:26,560
lot of emerging technologies

2750
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:28,080
and an oral historian i'm coming up on

2751
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,840
like episode 1000 uh

2752
01:23:32,629 --> 01:23:31,280
congratulations we gotta get you on the

2753
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:32,639
singularity lab because i think that's a

2754
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:33,679
good platform for you i've already

2755
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:34,000
booked

2756
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:36,639
him oh perfect all right ken well we'll

2757
01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:37,920
see you soon my friend thank you for

2758
01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:38,719
stopping by

2759
01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:42,800
yeah thanks uh thanks again mick west

2760
01:23:46,709 --> 01:23:44,719
thank you man thank you for uh for for

2761
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:46,719
always saying yes to this show you're

2762
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:49,679
truly um i'm sure you've got it was that

2763
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:50,639
a ton of other

2764
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,639
better to do but i'm glad you we

2765
01:23:56,470 --> 01:23:54,560
always get you smiling i'm i'm glad that

2766
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:56,480
we didn't get too much resting mcface

2767
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:57,120
today

2768
01:24:00,790 --> 01:23:59,440
uh and uh and it was a good time man oh

2769
01:24:01,510 --> 01:24:00,800
there it is there's the wrestling mcface

2770
01:24:03,350 --> 01:24:01,520
there it is

2771
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:03,360
all right all right mick mick west dude

2772
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:04,800
i really appreciate it uh

2773
01:24:08,790 --> 01:24:06,800
friend of the show we'll see you soon

2774
01:24:10,950 --> 01:24:08,800
wait um

2775
01:24:12,590 --> 01:24:10,960
tell everybody we're my metabunk midwest

2776
01:24:14,950 --> 01:24:12,600
west google it

2777
01:24:17,110 --> 01:24:14,960
[Laughter]

2778
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:17,120
go up everywhere all right my friend